rec.autos.simulators

by **Mark Daviso** » Tue, 18 Mar 2003 01:48:59

I've found that framerates in N2003 have DROPPED moving from this:

AMD XP 2400
Ti 4200
512 Mb PC2100 DDR
SiS 735 chipset

to this:

AMD XP 2400
Radeon 9700 Pro
512 Mb PC2700 DDR
nForce2 chipset

Any ideas?

Regards,

Mark
http://www.racesimcentral.net/

by **GBB** » Tue, 18 Mar 2003 03:11:53

Did you reformat and reinstall your operating system? Whether deliberate or
not Nvidia drivers seem to change something that irreparably messes up ATI
drivers even after they've been fully uninstalled.

by **Mark Daviso** » Tue, 18 Mar 2003 04:02:26

I'd heard this, too. It's a new setup that I've built - only an Audigy2,
DVD drive and FrontX ports out of the old box, none of which are gonna
affect performance.

Regards,

Mark

by **Don Burnett** » Tue, 18 Mar 2003 05:21:49

> I've found that framerates in N2003 have DROPPED moving from this:

> AMD XP 2400
> Ti 4200
> 512 Mb PC2100 DDR
> SiS 735 chipset

> to this:

> AMD XP 2400
> Radeon 9700 Pro
> 512 Mb PC2700 DDR
> nForce2 chipset

> Any ideas?

> Regards,

> Mark
> http://www.markdavison.clara.net/OVAL/

Did you completely remove all references to the Nvidia card drivers and/or
do a reformat?
Have you downloaded and installed the latest Cat 3.2 drivers and control
panel?
Have you gone in and adjused your d3d or opengl settings ( I personally
prefer d3d).
Turned Vsynch off?

I am running the 9700 Pro with an XP2400+ on an Nforce2 mb, and my d3d
settings are on peformance, with 16X anistropic and 2X AA.
Looks great, and I get framerates from 70-100 fps in N2003.

Don Burnette

by **Doug Elliso** » Tue, 18 Mar 2003 05:56:26

Reinstall windows.

About the only hardware you can get away with swopping out with windows is a
drive of some sort without having to reinstall windows i'm affraid.

The very worst is a Creative Labs sound card or an ATI graphics card.

Motherboards, GFX Cards, Sound Cards - they are all 100% MUST reinstall
windows pieces of hardware.

Doug

by **Mark Daviso** » Tue, 18 Mar 2003 06:51:55

Done (see reply above)

FWIW:

rendogl.ini from old setup (may have been with the 1800XP but the rest is as
in my first post):
[3D Accelerator Analysis]
PolyRate=700.16
TestedFullScreen=1
TextureSetSize=84920016
BitsPerPixel=32
Height=960
Width=1280
AnisotropicLevel=8
UseStencilBuffer=0
MinFilter=9987
MagFilter=9729
Renderer=GeForce4 Ti 4200/AGP/3DNOW!
Version=1.4.0
Vendor=NVIDIA Corporation

rend_dxg.ini:
[3D Accelerator Analysis]
PolyRate=595.05
AnisotropicLevel=4
TextureSetSize=213909504
BitsPerPixel=32
TestedFullScreen=1
Height=960
Width=1280
vSyncMode=0
MipMapLODBias=-0.50
BestStampVOffset=0.50
BestStampUOffset=0.50
UseStencilBuffer=0
MipFilter=2
MinFilter=2
MagFilter=2
Renderer=nv4_disp.dll
Version=Product 6 Version 13.10 Build 4109
Vendor=NVIDIA GeForce4 Ti 4200

And the new:
OpenGL
[3D Accelerator Analysis]
PolyRate=1075.73
TestedFullScreen=1
TextureSetSize=166708944
BitsPerPixel=32
Height=960
Width=1280
AnisotropicLevel=16
UseStencilBuffer=0
MinFilter=9987
MagFilter=9729
Renderer=Radeon 9700 Pro x86/MMX/3DNow!/SSE
Version=1.3.3604 WinXP Release
Vendor=ATI Technologies Inc.

D3D
[3D Accelerator Analysis]
PolyRate=600.45
AnisotropicLevel=8
TextureSetSize=165150720
BitsPerPixel=32
TestedFullScreen=1
Height=864
Width=1152
vSyncMode=0
MipMapLODBias=-0.50
BestStampVOffset=0.50
BestStampUOffset=0.50
UseStencilBuffer=0
MipFilter=2
MinFilter=2
MagFilter=2
Renderer=ati2dvag.dll
Version=Product 6 Version 14.1 Build 6307
Vendor=RADEON 9700 PRO

(resolution is different - was trying to up the framerates)

I don't get it.

Regards,

Mark

by **Mark Daviso** » Tue, 18 Mar 2003 07:23:22

Oh, and the either the DX9 install or the latest Radeon drivers lost me 800
3DMarks (2001)

hmmmm....

Regards,

Mark

by **Steve Smit** » Tue, 18 Mar 2003 09:35:56

The 3.2 Cats are only supposed to be 2-3% faster than the 3.1s. A real
perf. boost is said to be coming with the 3.3s.

I don't get it either. The nForce 2 is supposed to be cheaper/better/faster
than the SiS 735. Could be DX9. Did you test before you installed 9?
Unless you want to do another reinstall, you can't roll back to 8.1, altho
there are several utils that claim you can....

> > Reinstall windows.

> Oh, and the either the DX9 install or the latest Radeon drivers lost me
800
> 3DMarks (2001)

> hmmmm....

> Regards,

> Mark

by **Mark Daviso** » Tue, 18 Mar 2003 16:48:27

cheaper/better/faster

That's gonna be a last resort.

I tried N2002 and have the same issues. After running the 3D config the
game defaulted the detail settings to near max (only cars drawn in mirror
was not set to it's maximum) so for some reason N2002 at setup point thought
I had plenty horsepower.

Knocking detail down to how I ran on the old 1800/SiS735/Ti4200 machine I'm
getting at best equivalent performance. Definately noticably worse on
2400/nForce2/9700Pro than on 2400/SiS735/Ti4200.

vsync, aniso and all other fancy filtering deals are off as far as I can
tell. Can't see a way of *forcing* them off in the control panels, tho.

Stumped.

Regards,

Mark Davison
OVAL Deputy Admin
Car #69
http://www.markdavison.clara.net/OVAL/

by **MadDAW** » Tue, 18 Mar 2003 19:59:03

While I don't have an answer for you I can say something if Fubar. On my
xp2100 cpu/ Leadtek Nforce2 mobo with a ATI9700 pro the NR2002 maxed
everything out. The only thing left for me to adjust was 3d sound.
Everything else was topped out.

MadDAWG

by **Steve Smit** » Tue, 18 Mar 2003 21:11:40

If the frame rate is really REALLY screwed up (as in slide show), you might
look to the sound card--frequently the culprit. It's not sharing an IRQ
with the AGP, is it? Not sitting in the slot next to the AGP? Does the
mouse stutter? Have you tried moving the sound to another slot? BIOS set
to PnP OS? There's *gotta* be a logical answer....

> > The 3.2 Cats are only supposed to be 2-3% faster than the 3.1s. A real
> > perf. boost is said to be coming with the 3.3s.

> > I don't get it either. The nForce 2 is supposed to be
> cheaper/better/faster
> > than the SiS 735. Could be DX9. Did you test before you installed 9?
> > Unless you want to do another reinstall, you can't roll back to 8.1,
altho
> > there are several utils that claim you can....

> That's gonna be a last resort.

> I tried N2002 and have the same issues. After running the 3D config the
> game defaulted the detail settings to near max (only cars drawn in mirror
> was not set to it's maximum) so for some reason N2002 at setup point
thought
> I had plenty horsepower.

> Knocking detail down to how I ran on the old 1800/SiS735/Ti4200 machine
I'm
> getting at best equivalent performance. Definately noticably worse on
> 2400/nForce2/9700Pro than on 2400/SiS735/Ti4200.

> vsync, aniso and all other fancy filtering deals are off as far as I can
> tell. Can't see a way of *forcing* them off in the control panels, tho.

> Stumped.

> Regards,

> Mark Davison
> OVAL Deputy Admin
> Car #69
> http://www.markdavison.clara.net/OVAL/

by **Joachim Trens** » Tue, 18 Mar 2003 22:49:10

This may be a bit of an usual advice, but knowing your mobo well, I just
have to ask you - are you sure the CPU is running at the right speed at all?
And the BIOS settings are all where they should be? This BIOS has surprised
quite a few users by recognising their CPUs incorrectly, and also the BIOS
settings especially in the Advanced Chipset setup may be way off from what
would be optimal. I'm think especially of RAM timings, RAM sync settings and
CPU timings. And you do have one of your DIMMs in slot 3 and the other in
either 1 or 2 (as only this way you'll get the dual channel to work)?

Achim

by **Dave Henri** » Tue, 18 Mar 2003 23:32:37

"Steve Smith"
I know the original Nforce motherboards were real dogs. My first guess
is that you got shipped an N1 board instead of an n2 version. So check
that to verify you really do have the N2. Next make sure your onboard
settings are disabled...sound and video.
Next try getting a utility called coolbits to make sure your vsync is
off in d3d. Also getting something comparable to Rivatuner for ATI(anybody
know of a good tweek utility for 9700's?)
Finally, I'd look both at your card and ingame anistrophic settings. I
think I remember a thread where N2k2 defaulted to a rather high Ansio
setting if it detected XX amount of vid ram, so maybe N2k3 is the same.
Oops one other thing...make sure you eradicate all traces of the
former Catalyst drivers before installing the latest..3.2's. Try to keep
the driver confusion to a minimum. Good luck.

by **Aide** » Tue, 18 Mar 2003 20:49:42

Hey Mark..this is a little worrying...

" ...vsync, aniso and all other fancy filtering deals are off as far as I
can
tell. Can't see a way of *forcing* them off in the control panels, tho..."

The Ati Control Panel has very VERY clear options for altering/switching on
and off these very settings.So if you are saying the above then you are
doing something wrong.I have the 9700 Pro and like all Ati's it seems to
have a tiered install of the drivers,the important one for you would be the
Control Panel.You 'appear' to be lacking the Ati 'proper' control panel and
are looking at a Windows/Ati/ANOther control panel.

If you right click the desktop,choose Properties,then choose Settings
tab,then click Advanced,now you should see ALOT of tabs,alot more than there
ever were with Nvidia.The ones you need are the Direct3D and Open GL
tabs.Once these are clicked you are into AA,Anistropic,Vsync altering
territory,and even within these tabs there are other buttons to press for
other settings.

Whilst on these Direct3D and Open GL tabs you will see an option to Custom
set up,this needs to be ticked/unticked and the sliders moved to
0/zero/off/nil etc etc for you to make your checks.The vsync option changed
to always off for now.Default on all these will be Application Preference.

Sorry if you have done all of this already but i would rather try and help
with a load of slobber than read in 3 days it's all you needed to sort it.

Good luck

AD

by **Aide** » Wed, 19 Mar 2003 00:12:56

Dave....for once i see you giving duff advice ;)

ATI drivers and their control panel comes with all you could get with
tweaking software regarding vsync etc...and coolbits is for nvidia stuff
isnt it..?

My guy feeling is that Mark hasnt quite got to grips with Ati ways instead
of Nvidia's ways.,but it will come.

AD

rec.autos.simulators

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