rec.autos.simulators

N2003 Buggy POS Arcade Game

jason moy

N2003 Buggy POS Arcade Game

by jason moy » Fri, 30 Jan 2004 02:55:26



I make mine soft too, I just tend to focus more on making the springs
and shocks soft and then using the bars to eliminate most of the
lateral rolling (one thing I took from the recommendations of the
Jasper engineer, actually). The end result is similar tire wear/temps
but a car that suits my style more.  At some tracks I'll have a rear
tire that's too hot (at Watkins Glen for example, the left rear heats
up too quickly with my baseline setup) so I just make moderate
adjustments to either the crossweight or do some weight jacking with
the springs.  I'll also often run a bit less spoiler and shift a tiny
bit of weight forward depending on the circuit, since 70 seems less
than optimum at most tracks.

To me the debate over setup/style seems fairly obvious and can be seen
almost anywhere in road course racing.  Team Lotus in 78 is a good
example.  You have Mario, who preferred a car that allowed him to keep
moving forward in corners with minimum lateral rolling and Ronnie, who
preferred a car that he could throw around with reckless abandon.  Not
much of a difference in skill or results at that point in their
careers but 2 completely different approaches to setting up and
driving the same car (and one of the last years in f1 where those
approaches were valid, actually, since ground effect required stiff
everything in order to keep the tunnels close to the ground).

Jason

Joachim Trens

N2003 Buggy POS Arcade Game

by Joachim Trens » Fri, 30 Jan 2004 03:25:48

...

I am AAMOF with my newer setups (Sebring being one of them) stiffening
the sway bars some more. I tried it once a while ago, I forget why, and
noticed to my surprise that as long as I maintained the overall balance,
these 1000/1000 bars made the car more driveable without reducing the
mileage I was getting out of the tires.

I am currently (gradually) redoing most of my setups somewhat based on
that finding, stiffening the sway bars some and adding some castor
(except at extremes like Monaco), i.e. I am moving towards reducing the
body roll some as well.

I hesitate to stiffen the front bar more and thereby to actually change
the balance substantially (I'd be more inclined if the rear bar weren't
stuck at 1000, and the track bars just don't make up for that for me,
they deliver a different result), but maybe I'll experiment some with
this as well.

But you know how it is. Once you've found a working base setup, you tend
to stick to that, even if perhaps you could improve, just because any
appropriately methodical testing is complex and time consuming.

Achim

jason moy

N2003 Buggy POS Arcade Game

by jason moy » Fri, 30 Jan 2004 04:50:17



Honestly, I tend to keep the roll couple set to 90 and then balance
the cornering with the shocks.  For me, that was the hardest part of
getting a setup that felt right, and something I'm still always
messing around with.  At Le Mans, where 1/9 shocks tack an extra 2mph
onto the mulsanne speed and 450/150 springs are mandatory, it took a
lot of stumbling around in the dark a bit trying to get the
bars/weight setup for proper balance through dunlop (I ended up
messing with the shock compression anyway, apparently the 9 rebound
holding the car down is what helps with the drag).

Jason

Bill Bollinge

N2003 Buggy POS Arcade Game

by Bill Bollinge » Fri, 30 Jan 2004 09:10:50

Jason,  but to say that fixed setups don't matter in oval racing is wrong.
Oval racing is about 90% setup vs. 10% driver skill.  Road Racing is about
90% driver skill and 10% setup.  My belief and I believe I am right on this
is that in a fixed road racing league, the good drivers will move to the top
on a more consistent basis than in a fixed oval league, therefore, it is
more logical to say that it is better to run a fixed road racing league vs.
fixed oval league.  I know what your point is, but what most of you guys are
not factoring into your discussion is how much of a difference is being
caused by system differences, not driver preference.


> On Mon, 26 Jan 2004 20:47:30 -0500, "Bill Bollinger"

> >Explain the logic on this one?  How is fixed setups on road courses and
less
> >stupid than on ovals?

> On ovals, the aim of a setup is speed.  Maximum grip, maximum top
> speed, maximum turning ability, etc.  While different drivers have
> different preferences for oval setups, the variation in setup
> philosophy is fairly narrow and laptimes are based more on the quality
> of setup than driver skill (for the sake of convenience I'm separating
> 'driver skill' from 'testing skill', which is obviously an important
> trait for an oval driver).

> On a road course, the potential of a setup is almost entirely driver
> dependent.  There are a wide variety of styles for attacking a road
> course, and each style requires a different kind of setup in order to
> achieve consistency.  What feels good to Achim or David feels like a
> school bus to me.  What feels good to me would probably have Achim or
> David scratching their heads wondering how the hell I can drive it
> with any consistency.

> There are some good quotes from Steve Smith in the CART Racing
> Strategy Guide (p. 123) on this subject:

> "On an oval, there's basically one correct way to drive a lap...and
> everything else is either a compromise or a mistake.  In road racing,
> there are as many acceptable ways to attack the circuit as there are
> driving styles."

> "And while there are near-perfect setups for the ovals (all the
> theories tend to converge on a single point), road racing setups are
> far more nebulous."

> Jason

jason moy

N2003 Buggy POS Arcade Game

by jason moy » Fri, 30 Jan 2004 09:41:30

On Wed, 28 Jan 2004 19:10:50 -0500, "Bill Bollinger"


>Jason,  but to say that fixed setups don't matter in oval racing is wrong.
>Oval racing is about 90% setup vs. 10% driver skill.  Road Racing is about
>90% driver skill and 10% setup.  My belief and I believe I am right on this
>is that in a fixed road racing league, the good drivers will move to the top
>on a more consistent basis than in a fixed oval league, therefore, it is
>more logical to say that it is better to run a fixed road racing league vs.
>fixed oval league.  I know what your point is, but what most of you guys are
>not factoring into your discussion is how much of a difference is being
>caused by system differences, not driver preference.

I don't think the limiting factor in a fixed road racing series is
skill.  It's style.  

Road racing is 10% setup and 90% "does the driver feel comfortable
driving that setup".

Jason

Eldre

N2003 Buggy POS Arcade Game

by Eldre » Fri, 30 Jan 2004 09:50:53



>These setups haven't been like that at all.
>RA felt like it was glued to the track.

The *standard* RA setup???  Damn, I could barely get around the track without
almost crashing every lap.  I was about 6 seconds off the pace in another
leagues testing race. :-(

Eldred
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Eldre

N2003 Buggy POS Arcade Game

by Eldre » Fri, 30 Jan 2004 09:50:52



>I just don't get it. I tried Joachim's LeMans setup, then JS's, then yours.
>It took no effort to adjust from one to the other. All I had to do was get
>used to the gearing. The times were close (1.7 seconds difference between
>Joachim's and yours). You adjust.

That's not necessarily as easy as you make it seem.  If I'm used to a road
course setup that pushes, then I'll catch HELL with a setup from someone who
likes a tail-happy car.  Sure, I may be able to get it around the track, but
I'll have to go a LOT slower to keep the back end where it belongs.  Sure, I
can get a twitchy GH setup around Rouen, but I'm 10-15 seconds slower than with
my normal setup.  And I'd have to worry about spinning in every 3rd turn.  Some
things some people just CAN'T adjust to...

Eldred
--
Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett
Member
Screamers Racing League
IICC League
GPLRank -6.0    MoGPL rank +267.80
ChallengeRank +52.58   MoC +741.71
Hist. +82.34  MoH in progress
N2k3 rank:in progress

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