I talk, of course, of Mark Beckman and Tom Pabst.
The people they accuse of cheating are people I respect and look up to as
drivers far better than I will ever be - and people from whom many can
learn. They are drivers of supreme talent, excellent race craft and it's an
honour to be in the same field of play as they are.
So - to Tom and Mark and Anyone else who believes that the top line people
in GPL are cheating. PROVE IT.
I look forward to seing your responses.
Doug
On the + side:
Some of the very high scoring GPL rankers have posted there replays and
therefore have proven their ability and I admire their skill over a lap.
but...
On the - side:
GPLRank is far too trusting with their rankings. Anyone can cheat with their
player.ini file.
I do remember that there was a website where you had to send your replays to
qualify for listing. You also had to do the lap without all four wheels
leaving the grey stuff. Much fairer IMO.
There are many out there who are fast, but are they quick?
I've seen many who frequently do a fantastic qualifying lap only to crash
out early in the race. So at the end of the day I'm not bothered about
GPLRank and all the fast ones. I'll stick to consistency and continue
winning races against the speed freaks :)
Oh my GPLRank is a lowly -24.98
but who cares!
Alan
I'm not sure where Mark Beckman made this claim, I haven't seen it.
I assume you are referring to my post on 11/01/01? I thought it was an
obvious tongue-in-cheek joke following the news about the RT timing bug.
Apparently, many took it seriously...although I don't see how I could have
been more blatantly joking. It did give rise to an opportunity to discuss
the issues of hotlapping and whether it breeds clean racing among the new
drivers.......which you can read so I won't reiterate.
However, as I was reading your post I was struck by a strange sense of de'ja
vue.
About four years ago, online racing on TEN was just hitting its stride and
there were nights when as many as 5,000 online drivers were racing in one of
the many TEN-NASCAR race arenas. The most popular track for pickup races
was then was Talladega. It was the easiest track to learn (put your foot on
the floor and keep the car down on the yellow line) and with minimal
knowledge of setups or driving a Winston Cup car you could get up to
competitive speeds very quickly. This was before all the crash-fests
started.....Talladega was a fun place to race and everyone's qualifying
times became a wide source of discussion and speculation in the chat rooms
of TEN. There was clearly a relatively small group of drivers at the top of
the charts (about 30 or so) that were fast. A couple of months into this, a
group of drivers who were initially faster than everyone else....but not by
seconds.....by 1/10ths of a second....suddenly shot upwards and started
running qualifying runs several miles per hour faster than anyone else (we
used mph for our qual run timing) could manage! Claims were made of a
better setup (there wasn't much to set up on a fast Talladega car - you
dropped the shocks to minimum in the rear, the spoiler to minimum, pumped
the tires to max and let it rip....for two laps) and a better racing line
(the bottom of the track is the bottom of the track)......and soon
suspicions began to appear about "cheating." There was controversy
everywhere. There were lots of posts like yours (and that's the reason for
the de'ja vue when I read yours)......and lots of disclaimers and perfectly
good logical discussions about how it would be impossible to cheat the
physics code and no way would these top drivers be cheating
anyway.......honor and sportsmanship being sited as proof and so forth.
There was mysteriously nothing from Papyrus about all of this. Suddenly, on
a Friday afternoon if I recall, an announcement was made on r.a.s. that
Papyrus had released a "patch" - "The Talladega Pit Road Speed Bug" patch as
I recall it quickly got nicknamed. It seems a bug existed in the N3 code
that would allow you to make a qualifying run at Talladega that included
going down pit road instead of staying up on the track and going through the
tri-oval....and the pit road speed limit "penalty" would not be implemented
during a qualifying run. It was discovered quickly by all of us that if we
finished our second qualifying lap by cutting down pit road....we could up
our qual speeds by 3 to 6 mph...depending on how good we got at doing this.
That...was exactly how much this "elite group" had managed to raise their
qual speeds over everyone else! As I recall, only one person was kicked off
TEN for doing this....and frankly, I don't recall exactly if it was for this
violation or another...but that doesn't matter. Most of the "elite"
....since their qual times came plummeting back to the level of everyone
else's after installation of the patch (which was mandatory or you couldn't
sign on to TEN to race).....either dropped out of online racing or changed
their account names and raced under other alias names. I have no clue if
any of those guys are still involved in online racing....I kind of doubt it,
though.
Why am I saying this now?
Well, "history" is worth reviewing from time to time. And, your post has to
be put into a context of the following statement:
"If the capacity to cheat exists....then somebody will cheat." That is a
fact in real world racing....and its a fact in online sim racing as well.
Am I saying that Greggor and Wolfgang and all the other "elite" fast guys in
GPL are cheating? Absolutely not. For several reasons, I don't think they
are cheating and if I did.......I think I've made it perfectly clear to
everyone that I would have no bones about saying so....right here!
What I am saying to you Dave, is this: When posts like yours that challenge
for proof of cheating....go unanswered, that fact does **not** prove that
cheating is not going on. Sometimes, the "proof" just hasn't been revealed
yet. This is not my opinion....this is a fact proven already in the history
of racing.
Since some of you have problems with knowing when I'm being serious or when
I'm kidding around, I would go into the specific reasons why I think the top
GPL drivers are NOT cheating....I even consider these reasons as quasi'
proof that they are not....but this post is already to characteristically
long for me. Perhaps in another post if anyone cares? I'm sure the fast
guys don't.
Regards,
Tom Pabst
Not talking about GPLRank. Who cares who cheats and who doesnt in GPL Rank
I'm talking about RACING - wheel to wheel with the best doing 30 1:27's at
Monza in a row.
As for Pabst - if your post WAS a joke (and I am not alone in thinking that
it wasnt and you're just trying to back down without losing face - it's WAY
too late for that) then frankly - why bother? All you've done is embarass
yourself - harm your potential BRD buisness - and highlight your total lack
of motorsport knowledge
Doug
I think a better challenge for you Tom is to find the "silent
majority" who secretly agree with your views on hotlapping. They can
all post here in support.
Rafe Mc
The NROS never had more then 8 arenas which could support at maximum 125
people (they were at 100 for almost the totality of the NROS's history).
They were never full, in fact on the biggest night, Saturday night, the
attendance was approximately 900 people. The whole rest of your story isn't
really true also, it's much, MUCH different. I won't go into it because
it's ancient history. I mean we're talking about ***y N2 here! Nascar
friggin two!
Please tell us who those people were, I really would be interested Tom <G>
I don't know of the top 100 simracers on the NROS who dropped out. Only a
few I know have, and it's either for personal or medical reasons.
You just trolled, it was bad trolling and you pissed off everybody here.
It's better sometimes to shut up, istead of writing "but.. but.. but...
but...." and try to back track the situation. You wrote that the fast
GPLers cheat, which in fact is not true. They do not, but you still insist
they do simply because "well it's been proved before that some cheated back
like 4 years ago".
--
-- Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard>
-- May the Downforce be with you...
-- http://www.racesimcentral.net/
-- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimato Dominguez
Corporation - helping America into the New World...
Pabst seems a VERY typical TV character and ymenard...LOL..nice one.
Nice to see you have lost none of your <<BITE>> Douglas..!!
Morgan(of Leicester)
Well in that case - you're a common or garden TROLL. You should take a trip
into VROC and see how much people love you there. You are the new Bin Laden
in VROC. (You know VROC, where talented drivers race online and dont cheat.
You should try it some time. But make sure you're not quite so shit first.)
Amazingly you've managed to unite the whole of VROC. Without exception
you've become hated, loathed, and laughed at. You've also offended a lot of
people and your way of getting out of it all is "Oh, sorry, didnt you know I
was trolling".
Many believe that you were not infact 'trolling' and were genuine in your
post (after all - why would a troll bother writing something so structured
and in depth purely for the point of starting an argument).
Whatever you're actual intent - you have infact damaged BRD sales (many
VROC'ers have emailed BRD HQ to voice their disgust that a US importer of
BRD gear could be so outspokenly offensive and wrong). You've tarnished
yourself and shattered any respect most people had for you for a LONG time.
Frankly - you're a complete Joke. It may be Funny, it's also very very
tragic.
Doug
- but no apology has been forthcoming.
Marc
> > I can understand your anger Doug.
> > Some points I would like to make.
> > On the + side:
> > Some of the very high scoring GPL rankers have posted there replays and
> > therefore have proven their ability and I admire their skill over a lap.
> > but...
> > On the - side:
> > GPLRank is far too trusting with their rankings. Anyone can cheat with
> their
> > player.ini file.
> Not talking about GPLRank. Who cares who cheats and who doesnt in GPL
Rank
> I'm talking about RACING - wheel to wheel with the best doing 30 1:27's at
> Monza in a row.
> As for Pabst - if your post WAS a joke (and I am not alone in thinking
that
> it wasnt and you're just trying to back down without losing face - it's
WAY
> too late for that) then frankly - why bother? All you've done is embarass
> yourself - harm your potential BRD buisness - and highlight your total
lack
> of motorsport knowledge
> Doug
GAMES.
As for Tom, it was extremely obvious that he was being sarcastic with
his "GPL timing bug" comments. He was joking about his 1:33 times at
Monza (he proved that).
All he said was that obsessed hotlappers***up a lot of online
races. He's right. They ALWAYS have. Not EVERY hotlapper, but MANY of
them wreck races due to their approach to a race. I say this after
racing online for four and a half years now. It's an accepted fact for
most people who have any online experience.
As for the GPL hotlappers/racers. Well, when you play any racing game
for as many hours as some of you have over a three year time span, you
better be able to do searing laps while blindfolded. Some may be very
talented (no doubt), but your not proving anything with a driving game
you've played that much.
David G Fisher
> Amazingly you've managed to unite the whole of VROC. Without exception
> you've become hated, loathed, and laughed at. You've also offended a lot of
> people and your way of getting out of it all is "Oh, sorry, didnt you know I
> was trolling".
> Many believe that you were not infact 'trolling' and were genuine in your
> post (after all - why would a troll bother writing something so structured
> and in depth purely for the point of starting an argument).
> Whatever you're actual intent - you have infact damaged BRD sales (many
> VROC'ers have emailed BRD HQ to voice their disgust that a US importer of
> BRD gear could be so outspokenly offensive and wrong). You've tarnished
> yourself and shattered any respect most people had for you for a LONG time.
> Frankly - you're a complete Joke. It may be Funny, it's also very very
> tragic.
> Doug
> - but no apology has been forthcoming.
Hiya Gavel, long time no see....:-)
Beers and cheers
(uncle) Goy
http://www.theuspits.com
http://www.teammirage.com
"A woman is an occasional pleasure but a cigar is always a smoke"
--Groucho Marx--
There's hot lappers - and theres people who try and hot lap but are shit.
Shit people will crash - hot lappers will not. Those who are shit are
incaperble of hot lapping - because they are slow and thus incaperble of a
lap that is 'hot'.
Regardless of the rest of his post - comments about hot lappers are
offensive to a great number of people. I was suprised to hear back from BRD
that they have been (and I quote) "inundated with complaints, we are taking
this most seriously and we will make a statement on this as soon as
possible"
Tom unfortuantely went beyond a joke and offended a lot of people. Thats the
facts here.
Doug
--
-- Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard>
-- May the Downforce be with you...
-- http://www.ymenard.com/
-- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimato Dominguez
Corporation - helping America into the New World...
.
> > Geez. Can you be any more dramatic? Get some perspective on life.
> > These are games.
> > GAMES.
> > As for Tom, it was extremely obvious that he was being sarcastic with
> > his "GPL timing bug" comments. He was joking about his 1:33 times at
> > Monza (he proved that).
> > All he said was that obsessed hotlappers***up a lot of online
> > races. He's right. They ALWAYS have. Not EVERY hotlapper, but MANY of
> > them wreck races due to their approach to a race. I say this after
> > racing online for four and a half years now. It's an accepted fact for
> > most people who have any online experience.
> There's hot lappers - and theres people who try and hot lap but are shit.
> Shit people will crash - hot lappers will not. Those who are shit are
> incaperble of hot lapping - because they are slow and thus incaperble of a
> lap that is 'hot'.
> Regardless of the rest of his post - comments about hot lappers are
> offensive to a great number of people. I was suprised to hear back from
BRD
> that they have been (and I quote) "inundated with complaints, we are
taking
> this most seriously and we will make a statement on this as soon as
> possible"
> Tom unfortuantely went beyond a joke and offended a lot of people. Thats
the
> facts here.
> Doug
