rec.autos.simulators

A post kind of like prove it or shut it...

David Ciemn

A post kind of like prove it or shut it...

by David Ciemn » Tue, 06 Nov 2001 19:40:24

I was in a N4 race the other day. Good clean field. Turned out to be a fun
race.

My point...it was a fixed set up race. The difference in lap times  were
kind of strange. Pole and the first few guys were almost two seconds per lap
better than the rest of the field. If everyone is using the same set up why
does it often happen like this? Guys were talking about how talented some of
the guys were. OK..but from pit row they just blow on by. Is it they have
better hardware thus making the cars quicker. where is the advantage then if
there is any at all? This race turned out to be clean and fun but they are
mysterious(fixed set ups) at times.

DC

Stephen Smit

A post kind of like prove it or shut it...

by Stephen Smit » Tue, 06 Nov 2001 21:20:06

Dave,

As you know, there are ways and ways to cheat (I have a marvellous replay of

the kink).  And there are hugely divergent talents behind the wheel.  I am
prepared to believe there are honest guys who can maintain 190 mph thru the
Masta kink.  I just don't want to race with them.

A couple of hints.  Most of the cheaters I know abt. seem to live physically
near each other (and not in caves in Afghanistan; think of another major
trouble-spot in the century just past).  And most seem to have spent a lot
more time hacking code than practicing their chops on racing circuits.  So
they make great hot-lap 'artistes,' but not very consistent racers.  Think
abt. it.

--Steve


Dan Leac

A post kind of like prove it or shut it...

by Dan Leac » Tue, 06 Nov 2001 21:24:26

''Most of the cheaters I know'' whos this then?  do tell


> Dave,

> As you know, there are ways and ways to cheat (I have a marvellous replay
of

> the kink).  And there are hugely divergent talents behind the wheel.  I am
> prepared to believe there are honest guys who can maintain 190 mph thru
the
> Masta kink.  I just don't want to race with them.

> A couple of hints.  Most of the cheaters I know abt. seem to live
physically
> near each other (and not in caves in Afghanistan; think of another major
> trouble-spot in the century just past).  And most seem to have spent a lot
> more time hacking code than practicing their chops on racing circuits.  So
> they make great hot-lap 'artistes,' but not very consistent racers.  Think
> abt. it.

> --Steve



> > I was in a N4 race the other day. Good clean field. Turned out to be a
fun
> > race.

> > My point...it was a fixed set up race. The difference in lap times  were
> > kind of strange. Pole and the first few guys were almost two seconds per
> lap
> > better than the rest of the field. If everyone is using the same set up
> why
> > does it often happen like this? Guys were talking about how talented
some
> of
> > the guys were. OK..but from pit row they just blow on by. Is it they
have
> > better hardware thus making the cars quicker. where is the advantage
then
> if
> > there is any at all? This race turned out to be clean and fun but they
are
> > mysterious(fixed set ups) at times.

> > DC

MadDAW

A post kind of like prove it or shut it...

by MadDAW » Tue, 06 Nov 2001 21:56:55

There are a few "tricks" to tuning fixed setups a little more to your
liking. The one I use which I feel is 100% legal is playing with the liner
setting in the controller setup. I found it pretty amazing just how much
that could change my lap times , tighten or loosing up a setup.

This just goes to show that there are so many variables involved that can
cause differences in lap times. Controllers and hardware are two of the big
ones. I'm not that familiar with the workings of N4, so I'll use DTR as an
example because I know a little more on how it works. For example in DTR the
physics updates are tied to the frames per second. So if you have a higher
frame rate you'll get a better physic update rate. then there is the whole
quality of connection thing. I have followed right on someone's bumper and
had lap times reported 0.25-0.5 slower lap times.

As for controllers one thing that I feel is a big plus is larger diameter
steering wheel. I think this is one of the big pluses of the TSW over the
more popular store bought wheels with those small 9-10" dia wheels. A TSW
has a 13" dia wheel standard. Now if you have the same steering range say
270 degrees the large wheel will allow you more precise adjustment. For
example a 10 " dia wheel has 30% less liner travel than a 13" dia wheel.

MadDAWG

John Pancoas

A post kind of like prove it or shut it...

by John Pancoas » Tue, 06 Nov 2001 23:59:28

  Not so easily in N4.  Unless the "cheaters" game files match the servers
_exactly_ , he's sol.  I know people who can run faster in fixed setups and
blow anybody off any track at any time, even if they're using open setups,
and can guarantee they're not cheating(I'm one of those getting blown away
fwiw :)

  Hardware can make a small difference, especially a big monitor, but just
as in actual racing, some are better than others.

-John


> Dave,

> As you know, there are ways and ways to cheat (I have a marvellous replay
of

> the kink).  And there are hugely divergent talents behind the wheel.  I am
> prepared to believe there are honest guys who can maintain 190 mph thru
the
> Masta kink.  I just don't want to race with them.

> A couple of hints.  Most of the cheaters I know abt. seem to live
physically
> near each other (and not in caves in Afghanistan; think of another major
> trouble-spot in the century just past).  And most seem to have spent a lot
> more time hacking code than practicing their chops on racing circuits.  So
> they make great hot-lap 'artistes,' but not very consistent racers.  Think
> abt. it.

> --Steve



> > I was in a N4 race the other day. Good clean field. Turned out to be a
fun
> > race.

> > My point...it was a fixed set up race. The difference in lap times  were
> > kind of strange. Pole and the first few guys were almost two seconds per
> lap
> > better than the rest of the field. If everyone is using the same set up
> why
> > does it often happen like this? Guys were talking about how talented
some
> of
> > the guys were. OK..but from pit row they just blow on by. Is it they
have
> > better hardware thus making the cars quicker. where is the advantage
then
> if
> > there is any at all? This race turned out to be clean and fun but they
are
> > mysterious(fixed set ups) at times.

> > DC

Andre Warrin

A post kind of like prove it or shut it...

by Andre Warrin » Wed, 07 Nov 2001 00:03:59

On Mon, 05 Nov 2001 12:20:06 GMT, "Stephen Smith"


>A couple of hints.  Most of the cheaters I know abt. seem to live physically
>near each other (and not in caves in Afghanistan; think of another major
>trouble-spot in the century just past).  And most seem to have spent a lot
>more time hacking code than practicing their chops on racing circuits.  So
>they make great hot-lap 'artistes,' but not very consistent racers.  Think
>abt. it.

>--Steve

Argh, stop the mysterious ramblings and give some details Steve! Who,
how and when? Someone from a major trouble spot.. is Hussein cheating
in N4 so he can at least win something??

Andre

Dave Henri

A post kind of like prove it or shut it...

by Dave Henri » Wed, 07 Nov 2001 00:06:44

   Could it be somebody who doesn't get a chance to get out much anymore?
someone whose holed up for the winter without very much else to do?
Somebody with lots of cash to spend on hardware upgrades?
dave henrie

> On Mon, 05 Nov 2001 12:20:06 GMT, "Stephen Smith"

> >A couple of hints.  Most of the cheaters I know abt. seem to live
physically
> >near each other (and not in caves in Afghanistan; think of another major
> >trouble-spot in the century just past).  And most seem to have spent a
lot
> >more time hacking code than practicing their chops on racing circuits.
So
> >they make great hot-lap 'artistes,' but not very consistent racers.
Think
> >abt. it.

> >--Steve

> Argh, stop the mysterious ramblings and give some details Steve! Who,
> how and when? Someone from a major trouble spot.. is Hussein cheating
> in N4 so he can at least win something??

> Andre

Kirk Hous

A post kind of like prove it or shut it...

by Kirk Hous » Wed, 07 Nov 2001 03:12:57

I think people are used to 2 or 3 day learning curves with driving sims.  N4
is the first truly mainstream driving simulator.  GPL is a simulator but it
didn't reach as many as N4 has.  My point is that the more difficult
something is the bigger the gap between the best and the beginners.
Whenever I lose something my gut tells me that someone stole it.  I'm wrong
99% of the time though :)


Jens H. Kruus

A post kind of like prove it or shut it...

by Jens H. Kruus » Wed, 07 Nov 2001 03:15:58



> On Mon, 05 Nov 2001 12:20:06 GMT, "Stephen Smith"

> >A couple of hints.  Most of the cheaters I know abt. seem to live
physically
> >near each other (and not in caves in Afghanistan; think of another major
> >trouble-spot in the century just past).  And most seem to have spent a
lot
> >more time hacking code than practicing their chops on racing circuits.
So
> >they make great hot-lap 'artistes,' but not very consistent racers.
Think
> >abt. it.

> >--Steve

> Argh, stop the mysterious ramblings and give some details Steve! Who,
> how and when? Someone from a major trouble spot.. is Hussein cheating
> in N4 so he can at least win something??

> Andre

I was thinking more along the lines of Germany and perhaps the Oakland
Colliseum?
Perhaps this is a test to see how far back we think? ;-)

Cheers,
Jens

Jonny Hodgso

A post kind of like prove it or shut it...

by Jonny Hodgso » Wed, 07 Nov 2001 04:09:23


> Dave,

> As you know, there are ways and ways to cheat (I have a marvellous replay of


I sincerely hope that's a wings-n-slicks modern F1... though
I have a *** feeling you may be talking about GPL :-O

Please tell more!

(GP2 used to be fun with 1760 bhp IIRC...)

Jonny

David Butte

A post kind of like prove it or shut it...

by David Butte » Wed, 07 Nov 2001 05:33:15


<snip>
<snip>

Er... by one calculation there were 165 wars or tyrannies in the 20th
century:

http://users.erols.com/mwhite28/war-1900.htm

"Major", though. Germany? The Balkans (twice)? Korea? Vietnam? Iraq?
Ah, I know - it must have been the Falklands!

--
Sceptical scrutiny is the means, in both science and religion, by which
deep insights can be winnowed from deep nonsense -- Carl Sagan

The GPL Scrapyard returns (slowly): http://www.hillclimbfan.f2s.com

Jens H. Kruus

A post kind of like prove it or shut it...

by Jens H. Kruus » Wed, 07 Nov 2001 05:41:53




 <snip>
> "Major", though. Germany? The Balkans (twice)? Korea? Vietnam? Iraq?
> Ah, I know - it must have been the Falklands!

All those ***y cheating sheep. Baaah!
mark jeangerar

A post kind of like prove it or shut it...

by mark jeangerar » Wed, 07 Nov 2001 13:04:28

What happened at the Oakland Coliseum?

--

"Racing! - Science for the action minded."

mark



meddelelse

> > On Mon, 05 Nov 2001 12:20:06 GMT, "Stephen Smith"

> > >A couple of hints.  Most of the cheaters I know abt. seem to live
> physically
> > >near each other (and not in caves in Afghanistan; think of another
major
> > >trouble-spot in the century just past).  And most seem to have spent a
> lot
> > >more time hacking code than practicing their chops on racing circuits.
> So
> > >they make great hot-lap 'artistes,' but not very consistent racers.
> Think
> > >abt. it.

> > >--Steve

> > Argh, stop the mysterious ramblings and give some details Steve! Who,
> > how and when? Someone from a major trouble spot.. is Hussein cheating
> > in N4 so he can at least win something??

> > Andre

> I was thinking more along the lines of Germany and perhaps the Oakland
> Colliseum?
> Perhaps this is a test to see how far back we think? ;-)

> Cheers,
> Jens

David Butte

A post kind of like prove it or shut it...

by David Butte » Thu, 08 Nov 2001 00:24:30


It got given a ***y sponsored name - Network Associates Coliseum :-(

--
Sceptical scrutiny is the means, in both science and religion, by which
deep insights can be winnowed from deep nonsense -- Carl Sagan

The GPL Scrapyard returns (slowly): http://www.racesimcentral.net/

Eldre

A post kind of like prove it or shut it...

by Eldre » Thu, 08 Nov 2001 00:33:02



>  Hardware can make a small difference, especially a big monitor, but just
>as in actual racing, some are better than others.

I've heard others say that the size of the monitor doesn't matter.
<insert your own joke here>
I wish I could afford a larger monitor so I could see for myself if it helps
your driving.  I think it *should*, because you can see the objects(cars/brake
markers, etc.) larger and in a higher resolution...

Eldred
--
Dale Earnhardt, Sr. R.I.P. 1951-2001
Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett
GPLRank - under construction...

Never argue with an idiot.  He brings you down to his level, then beats you
with experience...
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