rec.autos.simulators

I think we can rule Suzuka out since it was never released by him (nice
funny point yet true by Corey Leigh).  But your point is what I hope the
whole third-party track creation becomes.  I'm all for free tracks, whatever
they have a license or not.  Screw the track owners, I want my
Mont-Tremblant or Jarama into GPL, even if the track owner's don't want if
they are free.  But when you make a profit for X tracks, then it's
different.

Good point.  We need to keep a low-key approach to what happens here.  But
like I said in some another message, N4 will bring a whole new market to the
new game engine (GPL and N4 will be closely related in terms of architecture
somehow).

Yes but how can we be so sure they don't mind?  Some day if we try to keep
everything secret a track owner will see the whole scheme.  It will happen
someday, and after that we're screwed.  I don't want this to happen, and I
just feel third-party track creators/converters don't take much precautions.
It already happened with Daytona for stock-car based Papyrus simulators.
GPL isn't different.

The thing is that people that create let's say BH for NFS might actually not
know it's illegal in a certain way.  It's stealing a property which has the
right to the track shape and likeness that it has.  But track owners don't
care yet, at the exceptions of some.  GPL isn't worse, it's equal as every
other software on the market, but that doesn't mean what everybody else does
is legal and we should do like them, since it's not.

Making a profit isn't important, it's stealing the track likeness.  But
***them, we will all continue to make tracks until they hit on us :)
Someday it will happen.  We'll soon find out if N4 is released without
Daytona.

I think we all agree on that.  We want tracks, MORE tracks ;-)

--
-- Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard>
-- May the Downforce be with you...
-- http://www.racesimcentral.net/
-- People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realise
how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world.

Beers and cheers
(uncle) Goy

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I waiting for the post that demands that we each send a nickel to the
rightful owner of a track every time we refer to that track in a post
here.

I'm with you, John.  There's too many nervous nellies in this world.
All the tracks that Dave's converter converts probably each get
another nickel every time somebody goes out and purchases a dusty old
copy of ICR2/N2/etc. out of a discount bin somewhere.  They'd have to
be screaming idiots to run around telling people, "no, no, no!!  You
can't do that!"

I must say though, that the occasional sanctimonious ass does bring a
certain degree of entertainment to the NG from time to time.

Regards,
Brett C. Cammack
That's Racing! Motorsports
Pompano Beach, FL

--
Olav K. Malmin
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[snip]

Man, your logic makes my head hurt at times :-)

Stephen

Beers and cheers
(uncle) Goy

"Team Mirage" http://www.teammirage.com/
"The Pits"    http://www.theuspits.com/

* Spam is for losers who can't get business any other way *
"Spamkiller"    http://www.spamkiller.com

My head hurts also.  I'm unsure myself of my coherence in this thead.

I think the only conclusion we will get from this thread is "We want more
tracks!" ;)

--
-- Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard>
-- May the Downforce be with you...
-- http://www.WeRace.net
-- People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realise
how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world.

I demand that we each send a nickel (or whatever your smallest coin is) to
the rightful owners of all the tracks that we've blatantly and illegally and
wrongfully and ymenardly stolen over the past three-hundred years so help me
God.

--
Regards,
Bruce Kennewell,
Canberra, Australia.
---------------------------

--
Olav K. Malmin
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Beers and cheers
(uncle) Goy

"Team Mirage" http://www.teammirage.com/
"The Pits"    http://www.theuspits.com/

* Spam is for losers who can't get business any other way *
"Spamkiller"    http://www.spamkiller.com

The Indianapolis Motor Speedway would be much more wealthy that way <vbg to
myself> ;)

--
-- Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard>
-- May the Downforce be with you...
-- http://www.WeRace.net
-- People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realise
how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world.

--
Olav K. Malmin
remove spam when replying

I knew I should have gotten an education.........

Beers and cheers
(uncle) Goy

"Team Mirage" http://www.teammirage.com/
"The Pits"    http://www.theuspits.com/

* Spam is for losers who can't get business any other way *
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"You" being Microprose, Sierra, or the entity writing the product.

Perhaps I misunderstood what you were saying, but my point is that the
A1-Ring already is an F1 track and covered under the FIA license to
whoever buys the rights. However there is no complaint about the
Osterreichring. So too with Brands Hatch, possibly also to be an F1
track soon.

The most likely route for legal problems is creating a fuss here, and
primarily by asking the tracks themselves for permission. That, to my
mind, would generate an automatic "nyet" and keep a few more lawyers
in sharp suits and mobile 'phones looking out for any transgressions.
Thus far it's been fine, just cross the bridge if it ever appears in
front of us.

John

I doubt that Dave would consider that he made a profit considering the
amount of time expended on this project compared to what someone of
his talents would have been paid had he actually "worked" those hours
for a software house. As you yourself said, GPL is a "little" product,
so if a little of the owners of a little product all pay a little
money, the end result is not very much.

Then too, is the profit made on the tracks or on the programming work?
Dave sells a very cheap converter which you make the choice to apply
to a track or not. Any violation of the law is either yours, or
whoever converts a track and posts the resultant converted track on
the web.

Probably, but there's a bridge to cross if it appears.

It doesn't need to be. There was nothing wrong with the Daytona
incident other than that Jan'n'Jed and the guys had a whole lot of
time wasted. The end result was that one track did see and object, so
everyone had to throw up their hands, apologise and stop work. If that
happens in the future the same will need to apply, but until then we
have to work on the assumption that people don't mind for the reason I
described.

I don't see why GPL track designers have to be so scrupulous, more so
than NFS or the like. In fact GPL stays far more within the law than
others since what is distributed is a program which creates a likeness
of the track, not the likeness of the track itself.

So, just convert it... Oops, shhhhhh! ;-)

John