rec.autos.simulators

by **Gregg E** » Thu, 14 Feb 2002 16:16:40

Number one is the 1954 Hudson Hornet. From 1950 to 1954, Hudson
ruled the roost in NASCAR, taking home more wins than any other
make. Those were the days of STOCK cars, REAL cars, not today's
tube frame wonders that are a "Ford" this season and a "Chevy"
the next. You bought them from the dealer, ripped out the interior
and welded in a roll cage. All your hop up parts also came from
the dealer.

Second is the 1975 to 1977 Mustang II, both coupe and fastback.
They are great with a 351 Windsor small block, heavy duty front
and rear swaybars and gas charged shocks all around. Or go the
other way and drop in a modern turbocharged 2.3 Liter four. The
Mustang II is finally getting the respect it has always been due
as a Mustang. Just check out the magazines like Mustang Monthly.

Third is the 1971 AMC Javelin. Drop a 401 V8 in and watch it
fly. Car Craft magazine has taken AMC to heart with a passion.
Hardly an issue goes by without at least one American Motors
article.

Fourth for the "What the heck is that?!" factor is the AMC
Matador Coupe. This slick beast was built to run wild on the
NASCAR superspeedways. Unfortunately at the last second, AMC
decided to get out of racing, leaving two lonely teams to
fend for themselves. When they had fresh engines they won
running away from the pack. Had AMC backed the teams there
would have been an aerodynamic watershed in automotive design
long before the 1984 Thunderbird banished "square" cars from
NASCAR.

Fifth is the original 1968 AMC AMX. This shortened, two
seater Javelin was an extremely good answer to the musclecars
from the "big three". This could be one of MCO's rare cars
since the originals were quite limited in production.

Sixth is the 1977 Lincoln Mark V Coupe. It's big, it's bad,
it's smokin' fast at the drags with a hopped up 460 big block.
It looks like it was designed with a ruler but it's definately
a classic.

And finally, the new Ford GT-40! Yes indeed, Ford has built
two brand new, updated GT-40 cars. At first glance they
look just like the 1960's Ferrari beaters but they've been
slicked up and run a modified engine from the Lightning truck.
Ford claims they have "Two Porsche Boxters worth of power".
One word says it all. SWEEEEEEEET! (Cubic feet of luggage
space, 0. Cars like it, 0.)

by **Txl** » Thu, 14 Feb 2002 18:48:35

Do you know that the world is not only the USA ?

Especially in cars where your record is far from impressive, talk to me
about some Jaguar D and E, some 356, some 911, some 250 GTO...or even some
M3 or M5 from nowadays...

The funny point about US cars is that they are just like Miscrosoft and
intel, NO optimization whatsoever, in your second point you mention a "351
WINDSOR SMALL BLOCK", if i do my math correctly a 351 block means a 5.6
Liter engine, and that would be a "SMALL"...in 1975-77, check out the 3L V6
from Ferrari that was in the lancia Stratos in 1971....probably half the
size and double the power...

Of course I do not take all this very seriously and i hope I won't be sent
to X-RAY camp for "anti american" activism but sometimes if would be good
for people to look around and realize that what they see around them can be
MUCH improved in other countries, let's look at france and our president,
the elections are in 3 months, if he loses he goes to jail, yes to jail,
cause he's so much in shit for some BAAAD things he did in the past with
public money, this example to tell you that just because I say american cars
are far from being the best doens't mean i think we (french or europeans)
are "better" than you...

Have a good day anyway

by **Stuart Becktel** » Thu, 14 Feb 2002 21:16:53

I think he is only talking about American cars because that is what he is
what he has actually seen on the streets. He is not trying to say anything
about other countries, this is just what he wants.
-Stuart Becktell

> Do you know that the world is not only the USA ?

> Especially in cars where your record is far from impressive, talk to me
> about some Jaguar D and E, some 356, some 911, some 250 GTO...or even some
> M3 or M5 from nowadays...

> The funny point about US cars is that they are just like Miscrosoft and
> intel, NO optimization whatsoever, in your second point you mention a "351
> WINDSOR SMALL BLOCK", if i do my math correctly a 351 block means a 5.6
> Liter engine, and that would be a "SMALL"...in 1975-77, check out the 3L
V6
> from Ferrari that was in the lancia Stratos in 1971....probably half the
> size and double the power...

> Of course I do not take all this very seriously and i hope I won't be sent
> to X-RAY camp for "anti american" activism but sometimes if would be good
> for people to look around and realize that what they see around them can
be
> MUCH improved in other countries, let's look at france and our president,
> the elections are in 3 months, if he loses he goes to jail, yes to jail,
> cause he's so much in shit for some BAAAD things he did in the past with
> public money, this example to tell you that just because I say american
cars
> are far from being the best doens't mean i think we (french or europeans)
> are "better" than you...

> Have a good day anyway

> > Number one is the 1954 Hudson Hornet. From 1950 to 1954, Hudson
> > ruled the roost in NASCAR, taking home more wins than any other
> > make. Those were the days of STOCK cars, REAL cars, not today's
> > tube frame wonders that are a "Ford" this season and a "Chevy"
> > the next. You bought them from the dealer, ripped out the interior
> > and welded in a roll cage. All your hop up parts also came from
> > the dealer.

> > Second is the 1975 to 1977 Mustang II, both coupe and fastback.
> > They are great with a 351 Windsor small block, heavy duty front
> > and rear swaybars and gas charged shocks all around. Or go the
> > other way and drop in a modern turbocharged 2.3 Liter four. The
> > Mustang II is finally getting the respect it has always been due
> > as a Mustang. Just check out the magazines like Mustang Monthly.

> > Third is the 1971 AMC Javelin. Drop a 401 V8 in and watch it
> > fly. Car Craft magazine has taken AMC to heart with a passion.
> > Hardly an issue goes by without at least one American Motors
> > article.

> > Fourth for the "What the heck is that?!" factor is the AMC
> > Matador Coupe. This slick beast was built to run wild on the
> > NASCAR superspeedways. Unfortunately at the last second, AMC
> > decided to get out of racing, leaving two lonely teams to
> > fend for themselves. When they had fresh engines they won
> > running away from the pack. Had AMC backed the teams there
> > would have been an aerodynamic watershed in automotive design
> > long before the 1984 Thunderbird banished "square" cars from
> > NASCAR.

> > Fifth is the original 1968 AMC AMX. This shortened, two
> > seater Javelin was an extremely good answer to the musclecars
> > from the "big three". This could be one of MCO's rare cars
> > since the originals were quite limited in production.

> > Sixth is the 1977 Lincoln Mark V Coupe. It's big, it's bad,
> > it's smokin' fast at the drags with a hopped up 460 big block.
> > It looks like it was designed with a ruler but it's definately
> > a classic.

> > And finally, the new Ford GT-40! Yes indeed, Ford has built
> > two brand new, updated GT-40 cars. At first glance they
> > look just like the 1960's Ferrari beaters but they've been
> > slicked up and run a modified engine from the Lightning truck.
> > Ford claims they have "Two Porsche Boxters worth of power".
> > One word says it all. SWEEEEEEEET! (Cubic feet of luggage
> > space, 0. Cars like it, 0.)

by **Andre Warrin** » Thu, 14 Feb 2002 21:47:42

> let's look at france and our president,
>the elections are in 3 months, if he loses he goes to jail, yes to jail,
>cause he's so much in shit for some BAAAD things he did in the past with
>public money

Now there's some good news! Thanks for making my day! :D

Andre

by **Gerald Moo** » Thu, 14 Feb 2002 22:19:29

> Number one is the 1954 Hudson Hornet. From 1950 to 1954, Hudson
> ruled the roost in NASCAR, taking home more wins than any other
> make. Those were the days of STOCK cars, REAL cars, not today's
> tube frame wonders that are a "Ford" this season and a "Chevy"
> the next. You bought them from the dealer, ripped out the interior
> and welded in a roll cage. All your hop up parts also came from
> the dealer.

Maybe someday they'll make a "Dirt Track Legends". I doubt it. Most
people these days seem to think Red Byron is some kind of frozen
pizza.

I think a "bootlegger vs. revenuer" road sim from the same era would
have lots of potential for fun.

<Scratches head and goes "huh?"> The only thing more stillborn than
the Mustang II was the Maverick.

Gerald

by **Todd Walke** » Fri, 15 Feb 2002 00:26:06

Gregg's post was about cars that *HE* would like to see in sims. Why is
he required to include European cars in those wishes? Is this a European
version of affirmative action?

Yep, all fantastic cars. The US has made some pretty fantastic cars too.
Look at the Corvette ZO6. Show me one European car that can match its
performance (both acceleration and handling) for the same money.

The terms "small block" and "big block" are used only in reference to
American cars and in comparison to each other. The engine block of a big
block engine is larger than the block of a small block engine. In the
late 60s and early 70s, the people who were buying American muscle cars
couldn't have cared less about Ferrari, Jaguar, Lancia, or any other Euro
car maker. They just knew that they could go to their dealer with $3000-
5000 and drive away in a car that could run the 1/4 mile in 13 seconds
(it couldn't turn or stop worth a ***but that didn't matter.) The
culture was about drag racing and the American car makers responded to
that demand, and did it very well. That's why you really can't compare
American cars and Euro cars of that era.

Same to you.

--
______________________
Todd Walker
http://www.racesimcentral.net/
Canon Pro90IS
______________________

by **Race15** » Fri, 15 Feb 2002 00:42:47

<<
Do you know that the world is not only the USA ?
Especially in cars where your record is far from impressive, talk to me
about some Jaguar D and E, some 356, some 911, some 250 GTO...or even some
M3 or M5 from nowadays...
The funny point about US cars is that they are just like Miscrosoft and
intel, NO optimization whatsoever, in your second point you mention a "351
WINDSOR SMALL BLOCK", if i do my math correctly a 351 block means a 5.6
Liter engine, and that would be a "SMALL"...in 1975-77, check out the 3L V6
from Ferrari that was in the lancia Stratos in 1971....probably half the
size and double the power...
Of course I do not take all this very seriously and i hope I won't be sent
to X-RAY camp for "anti american" activism but sometimes if would be good
for people to look around and realize that what they see around them can be
MUCH improved in other countries, let's look at france and our president,
the elections are in 3 months, if he loses he goes to jail, yes to jail,
cause he's so much in shit for some BAAAD things he did in the past with
public money, this example to tell you that just because I say american cars
are far from being the best doens't mean i think we (french or europeans)
are "better" than you...

Have a good day anyway>>

As an American, all I can tell you is that with the exception of a Porsche
Turbo and a Beautiful Jag XKE, I haven't had the opportunity to drive, let
alone SEE any of the cars you mentioned.

In my life, nothing compares to the rumble and roar of a big V-8. The way they
thunder and crackle with open dumps, the smell of unburned fuel, the throaty
sound of a wide open Holley carb, the ground pounding vibrations and white
noise that sprays across your senses. Nothing even remotely like it, IMHO!

In the last few years, as V-8's go the way of the dinosour, many young kids
here in the US have tuned in and turned on to the bumble bee cars, because that
is what THEY KNOW. God bless em, as long as the love of cars goes on.

Michael

P.S. Would love a ripped and roaring FORD COBRA 427 in a sim. And as far as a
1975-77 Mustang. I had a 1976 in which I dropped in a 1968 302, dual quad 600
Holleys on a Wiend (sp?) tunnel ram. 290-500 cam, 9" rear end from a 68 cougar
(bolted right in, drum to drum). Problem was the junk Ford 4-speed. Also had
a 1970 Torino convertible with the 429, awesome car! Should have kept that
one.

Adios, again! Michael

by **Ryan** » Fri, 15 Feb 2002 01:26:51

I'm sorry, but I can't let you get away with this one. The only thing the
Mustang II was ever good for was parts for those making 1930-1940's hot
rods. And yes, if you drop a big engine in a little car, of course it will
go fast. Hence the articles you mention.

Aside from that, you have very odd taste in automobiles - but I drive an El
Camino so who am I to judge? :-)

Ryan

by **redTe** » Fri, 15 Feb 2002 03:04:52

Virtually any TVR you care to mention could trounce your 'vette in a head to head :-)

by **TRUSRS** » Fri, 15 Feb 2002 03:06:32

Champcar

by **Todd Walke** » Fri, 15 Feb 2002 03:39:04

I said for the same money. And "trounce" is a very strong word.

--
______________________
Todd Walker
http://twalker.d2g.com
Canon Pro90IS
______________________

by **Glockenspie** » Fri, 15 Feb 2002 03:55:46

>Do you know that the world is not only the USA ?

>Especially in cars where your record is far from impressive, talk to me
>about some Jaguar D and E, some 356, some 911, some 250 GTO...or even some
>M3 or M5 from nowadays...

>The funny point about US cars is that they are just like Miscrosoft and
>intel, NO optimization whatsoever, in your second point you mention a "351
>WINDSOR SMALL BLOCK", if i do my math correctly a 351 block means a 5.6
>Liter engine, and that would be a "SMALL"...in 1975-77, check out the 3L V6
>from Ferrari that was in the lancia Stratos in 1971....probably half the
>size and double the power...

>Of course I do not take all this very seriously and i hope I won't be sent
>to X-RAY camp for "anti american" activism but sometimes if would be good
>for people to look around and realize that what they see around them can be
>MUCH improved in other countries, let's look at france and our president,
>the elections are in 3 months, if he loses he goes to jail, yes to jail,
>cause he's so much in shit for some BAAAD things he did in the past with
>public money, this example to tell you that just because I say american cars
>are far from being the best doens't mean i think we (french or europeans)
>are "better" than you...

>Have a good day anyway

I think he's talking about cars he would like to see in a sim/game.
And those cars you mention above are fine, except for their price
tags, which don't even put them in the same economical or
technological categories as the american cars mentioned in the
orifinal post, making your argument sorta silly. I'll bet your little
3L V6 was not naturally aspirated, was it? No. How many times did it
break? Many. Parts available for it? No. Hmmm........Sounds like a fun
car to own. I think I'll keep my Buick Grand National, thanks anyway.

by **Goy Larse** » Fri, 15 Feb 2002 04:27:46

> I think he's talking about cars he would like to see in a sim/game.
> And those cars you mention above are fine, except for their price
> tags, which don't even put them in the same economical or
> technological categories as the american cars mentioned in the
> orifinal post, making your argument sorta silly. I'll bet your little
> 3L V6 was not naturally aspirated, was it? No. How many times did it
> break? Many. Parts available for it? No. Hmmm........Sounds like a fun
> car to own. I think I'll keep my Buick Grand National, thanks anyway.

Actually, it was a 2.4L V6, which in certain race forms put out over 300
HP, it had 195 HP in road going trim, naturally aspirated :-), I've read
somewhere that this engine was based on the Ferrari 206 DINO F1 engine,
although I've never had that confirmed anywhere from "reliable" sources

Aside from that, I think you nailed it, the types of cars we'd like to
see in a sim depends on where you stand, some people like V8's, some
people prefer a screaming four or a high tech V12

Me.....AussieV8's RULE !!! :-), to me there are nothing more exciting
than a late 80's early 90's AussieV8, why you US guys hasn't imported
this series I'll never understand :-)

Beers and cheers
(uncle) Goy

"The Pits" http://www.theuspits.com/

* Spam is for losers who can't get business any other way *
"Spamkiller" http://www.spamkiller.com

by **Glockenspie** » Fri, 15 Feb 2002 04:30:42

>>Do you know that the world is not only the USA ?

>>Especially in cars where your record is far from impressive, talk to me
>>about some Jaguar D and E, some 356, some 911, some 250 GTO...or even some
>>M3 or M5 from nowadays...

>>The funny point about US cars is that they are just like Miscrosoft and
>>intel, NO optimization whatsoever, in your second point you mention a "351
>>WINDSOR SMALL BLOCK", if i do my math correctly a 351 block means a 5.6
>>Liter engine, and that would be a "SMALL"...in 1975-77, check out the 3L V6
>>from Ferrari that was in the lancia Stratos in 1971....probably half the
>>size and double the power...

>>Of course I do not take all this very seriously and i hope I won't be sent
>>to X-RAY camp for "anti american" activism but sometimes if would be good
>>for people to look around and realize that what they see around them can be
>>MUCH improved in other countries, let's look at france and our president,
>>the elections are in 3 months, if he loses he goes to jail, yes to jail,
>>cause he's so much in shit for some BAAAD things he did in the past with
>>public money, this example to tell you that just because I say american cars
>>are far from being the best doens't mean i think we (french or europeans)
>>are "better" than you...

>>Have a good day anyway

>I think he's talking about cars he would like to see in a sim/game.
>And those cars you mention above are fine, except for their price
>tags, which don't even put them in the same economical or
>technological categories as the american cars mentioned in the
>orifinal post, making your argument sorta silly. I'll bet your little
>3L V6 was not naturally aspirated, was it? No. How many times did it
>break? Many. Parts available for it? No. Hmmm........Sounds like a fun
>car to own. I think I'll keep my Buick Grand National, thanks anyway.

Ock.......Yes, I know the GN is a turbo car, but the cars the original
poster was talking about were naturally aspirated. Just thought I
would clarify that before you all start going nuts on me. I will STILL
keep my GN.

by **redTe** » Fri, 15 Feb 2002 06:00:04

> > > Yep, all fantastic cars. The US has made some pretty fantastic cars too.
> > > Look at the Corvette ZO6. Show me one European car that can match its
> > > performance (both acceleration and handling) for the same money.

> > Virtually any TVR you care to mention could trounce your 'vette in a head to head :-)

> I said for the same money. And "trounce" is a very strong word.

How much would I expect to pay for the Corvette here in England ? Possibly a fair bit more
than a TVR, I would guess.
"Trounce" is about right, I think. I've seen the Cerberra do it to all manner of
supercars. I don't think a Z06 would stand a cat in hell's chance.

rec.autos.simulators

Cars I want to see in any sim!

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Cars I want to see in any sim!

Cars I want to see in any sim!

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Cars I want to see in any sim!