rec.autos.simulators

GPL - On-Line Passing

Ron Ayto

GPL - On-Line Passing

by Ron Ayto » Sun, 21 Jan 2001 21:45:53

Hi,

Don't be dissapointed in a win like that, as you proved you were the
best driver on the day.
Congrats on your first VROC win too, with an attitude like you have,  i
am sure you will have many more.
Well done...

Cheers,
Ron



Eldre

GPL - On-Line Passing

by Eldre » Sun, 21 Jan 2001 23:08:56



>A friend of mine recently found a smart way of starting a Nrburgring race.
>Immediately after the start he raises his hand, indicating he has a problem,
>and pulls over. Then all the cars passes. Of course they crash in T1. Then
>my friend passes the wrecks, not being involved in the crashes, and gaines
>several positions.

Or, just start at the back...

Eldred
--
Tiger Stadium R.I.P. 1912-1999
Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett
GPL F1 hcp. +28.80...F2 +151.26...F3 hcp. +373.73

Never argue with an idiot.  He brings you down to his level, then beats you
with experience...
Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

Eldre

GPL - On-Line Passing

by Eldre » Sun, 21 Jan 2001 23:08:56



>I can't agree with that. First, on the first lap you don't know
>exactly where the guy ahead normally brakes (if he does). You need
>to leave some room to have enough time to react in the worst case.
>Second, when there's a relatively slow corner ahead, you can't brake
>at normal point if you're close behind, because the time gap that is
>enough at high speed is not sufficient at low speed. So you have to
>brake earlier. And if you're in 10th position you have to brake
>much earlier than if you're in 4th position, because of the same
>effect. When both are in effect together one has to brake really
>early:>

>Alex
>(alexti)

>P.S. I am making assumption that there're sensible drivers
>around you.

Problem is, there usually AREN'T.  That's why I rarely run pickup races.  The
only way you can try to avoid the crashes is to qualify on pole, or be so much
slower than everyone else.  For me, the first one is impossible, and the second
is BORING(driving around by yourself).

Eldred
--
Tiger Stadium R.I.P. 1912-1999
Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett
GPL F1 hcp. +28.80...F2 +151.26...F3 hcp. +373.73

Never argue with an idiot.  He brings you down to his level, then beats you
with experience...
Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

Cali

GPL - On-Line Passing

by Cali » Sun, 21 Jan 2001 23:27:09



I never suggested to make T1 passes. This would be plain stupid.

I agree with you that one might have to brake earlier than usual if there
are cars immediatly in front (it's plain physics). But the closer one gets
to
the car in front, the better for the cars following..

BTW: Up to now, I have never rearended or tried to pass anyone in T1..
(except
passing a lot of wrecks rolling through the gravel, of course ;)

   Have fun..

      Herbert

John Simmo

GPL - On-Line Passing

by John Simmo » Mon, 22 Jan 2001 01:26:55

I have found that at nose to tail distances, not following immediately
behind someone when approaching a turn is the best course of action.

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Eldre

GPL - On-Line Passing

by Eldre » Mon, 22 Jan 2001 02:31:09



>Hi,

>Don't be dissapointed in a win like that, as you proved you were the
>best driver on the day.

A win because everyone else disco'd?  That doesn't mean you're the best driver.
 It just means that you had the most time to kill...
I agree with him, it's an empty victory.

Eldred
--
Tiger Stadium R.I.P. 1912-1999
Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett
GPL F1 hcp. +28.80...F2 +151.26...F3 hcp. +373.73

Never argue with an idiot.  He brings you down to his level, then beats you
with experience...
Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

Jens H. Kruus

GPL - On-Line Passing

by Jens H. Kruus » Mon, 22 Jan 2001 04:34:24




>> Hi,

>> Don't be dissapointed in a win like that, as you proved you were the
>> best driver on the day.

> A win because everyone else disco'd?  That doesn't mean you're the best driver.
>  It just means that you had the most time to kill...
> I agree with him, it's an empty victory.

Sorry Eldred, but I have to side with Ron on this issue. I still cherish my GP win even if only two drivers went the distance. Speed is only good if it is sustained or useful speed. As far as I know lots of real races are won by guys because the leaders had various problems with their gear or endurance.

You could argue that the others guys didn't have the WILL to win. And
I'm confident that many of them have never even won a single long race
with that kind of attitude.

Cheers,
Jens

Ron Ayto

GPL - On-Line Passing

by Ron Ayto » Mon, 22 Jan 2001 09:28:06



Hi Eldred,

I seem to be disagreeing with everyone lately.  :)
If the guys that discoed, discoed from poor connections, then i would
agree with you, to a certain extent,  but in Semi's post, he stated
that the guys that discoed "crashed", THEN they discoed, and others
simply couldn't keep their cars on the road, and drive at a sensible
pace to complete the race, where Semi did both of those things, so
deserved the win.
That says to me, that Semi was more sensible than most of the guys that
crashed and discoed, and also had a greater will to take advantage of a
common happening in motor racing, sim or real..
I much prefer racing against drivers of Semi's mind set, than the
crash, burn & disco types, anyday of the week..

The first win on VROC is always a mile stone...
Well done Semi, you deserved it.

Cheers,
Ron

Eldre

GPL - On-Line Passing

by Eldre » Mon, 22 Jan 2001 10:13:16



>Sorry Eldred, but I have to side with Ron on this issue. I still cherish my
>GP win even if only two drivers went the distance. Speed is only good if it
>is sustained or useful speed. As far as I know lots of real races are won by
>guys because the leaders had various problems with their gear or endurance.

>You could argue that the others guys didn't have the WILL to win. And
>I'm confident that many of them have never even won a single long race
>with that kind of attitude.

I think a GP race is much different.  People enter it with the mindset that
it's a fight 'to the finish'.  They're not going to drop out just because they
have no chance of winning.  In a GP race, anything can happen, and the
participants KNOW that.  So yes, you EARNED that win - well done!
It's not the same in a quick race at Monza.  The mindset is much different -
they're here for a quick thrill.  When the possibilty of winning is gone, so
are they.  They run off to join another race.  If I'm the last man standing
because everyone bailed after 4 or 5 laps, that does NOT mean I'm the best
driver in that race.

Eldred
--
Tiger Stadium R.I.P. 1912-1999
Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett
GPL F1 hcp. +28.80...F2 +151.26...F3 hcp. +373.73

Never argue with an idiot.  He brings you down to his level, then beats you
with experience...
Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

Jens H. Kruus

GPL - On-Line Passing

by Jens H. Kruus » Mon, 22 Jan 2001 11:16:30




>> Sorry Eldred, but I have to side with Ron on this issue. I still cherish my
>> GP win even if only two drivers went the distance. Speed is only good if it
>> is sustained or useful speed. As far as I know lots of real races are won by
>> guys because the leaders had various problems with their gear or endurance.

>> You could argue that the others guys didn't have the WILL to win. And
>> I'm confident that many of them have never even won a single long race
>> with that kind of attitude.

> I think a GP race is much different.  People enter it with the mindset that
> it's a fight 'to the finish'.  They're not going to drop out just because they
> have no chance of winning.  In a GP race, anything can happen, and the
> participants KNOW that.  So yes, you EARNED that win - well done!
> It's not the same in a quick race at Monza.  The mindset is much different -
> they're here for a quick thrill.  When the possibilty of winning is gone, so
> are they.  They run off to join another race.  If I'm the last man standing
> because everyone bailed after 4 or 5 laps, that does NOT mean I'm the best
> driver in that race.

According to Carroll Smith, you are. :-)

I can't find the quote right now, but he mentions something about all the drivers at a given level being pretty much equally talented with the stronger will winning the race.

And yes, I know it's a bit different in GPL - we are not all equally
talented. I think the principle still applies.

Jens

Jens H. Kruus

GPL - On-Line Passing

by Jens H. Kruus » Mon, 22 Jan 2001 11:21:33


> I seem to be disagreeing with everyone lately.  :)

Not me. I mean, not right now. :-)

You certainly did, Semi. Well done!

According to your race report, the guy who flipped on the penultimate
lap didn't have the common sense to win. Thus he didn't deserve it.

Cheers,
Jens

Neil Rain

GPL - On-Line Passing

by Neil Rain » Tue, 23 Jan 2001 02:45:59

Bear in mind of course that Senna deliberately drove into Mansell just after
he'd been lapped, as it was his last chance to affect the outcome of the
race.

Mansell had to brake heavily for the chicane, so it was an ideal
opportunity.

Of course I could be wrong, and maybe Senna was just an incompetent
driver... well, what do you think?  ;-)

Neil Rain

GPL - On-Line Passing

by Neil Rain » Tue, 23 Jan 2001 02:51:26

I really think you will have to think again about this - it simply does not
work, unless everyone has unbelievably fast reactions.

If you look at the AI, or at a real race for that matter, the guys at the
back basically have to stop and queue up for T1, as Tony Rickard has already
said.

It's not too dissimilar from driving on public roads - the guy behind has a
duty not to rear-end the guy in front, regardless of how slowly he goes, and
certainly not if he can predict that the guy in front will have to slow
down, as in this case.

Marc Fraio

GPL - On-Line Passing

by Marc Fraio » Tue, 23 Jan 2001 03:55:09



This sort of strategy can work nearly anywhere, not just at the ring.
I was recently in a VROC pickup race at Watkins Glen with a full grid,
where I joined late, and didn't get a chance to qualify.  Thus I started
from the back.  Everyone made it through the esses, amazingly enough,
and then literally half the field went off over the outside embankment at
the entrance to the Loop.  I was in 9th, from 18th, after the first lap.

        Marc

Tony Rickar

GPL - On-Line Passing

by Tony Rickar » Tue, 23 Jan 2001 04:21:42

I was referring to Adelaide 92. Senna & Mansell were racing for position. A
potential great battle ended early (lap 18).

Davy Jones referred to the incident

"I wonder if his (Senna's) thinking in a race isn't so far advanced that his
mind is not relating to the incident that's actually happening. Maybe if
Nigel lifted a bit early, Ayrton just wasn't prepared for it, because his
mind was already two or three corners ahead. You know, when you take a
corner, your mind goes to the turn-in, then to the apex, then the exit.
You're always a step ahead of what you're actually doing. But maybe Senna is
always three steps ahead. Maybe that was it. And maybe that's why he's such
a great champion."

So what chance have we lesser beings on VROC?



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