http://www.racesimcentral.net/
--
Mikkel Gram-Hansen
http://www.racesimcentral.net/
--
Mikkel Gram-Hansen
http://www.racesimcentral.net/
--
Damien Smith
ICQ: 77028579
F1 2001 rank: +33.541
--
ed_
> Was it based on "hotlaps" (hotlegs?) If so, it seems a little strange to
> me. The whole idea of rallying is negotiating courses unseen with only a
> navigator. This is one reason why I'd like to see a rally game which
> randomly generates courses. It may sound silly but think about it....
The other thing it would need is really good co-driver speech... some
are just too slow, and still telling you about corners you've been
through. Grr!
[Rick]
Andre
BugBear/JoWood are among a very small few publishers/developers who have
actually acted upon detailed and beneficial features suggestions/etc. and
implemented them in a patch.
With all due respect... your opinions are based on ignorance (the true
meaning of the word... to form an opinion without the facts).
Cheers,
Schumi
> --
> ed_
> > ?yvind Kaurstad just posted this bad news about his RTRank project....
> > http://forum.racesimcentral.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=15904
> > --
> > Mikkel Gram-Hansen
> > http://www.racesimcentral.com
With similar respect... you actions towards Ed and RTrank show an abundance of
arrogance (proud contempt of others), maliciousness (being deliberately
harmful), deviousness (being not straightforward), and conceit (unduly high
opinion of own abilities).
You would make Microsoft very proud!
/Jens
I am a bit confused by your post in some respects.
As far as the contempt I have shown Ed... granted. It is contempt without a
doubt. Why do I have this contempt? The reasons are simple:
Like you and many others, I have been a frequenter of this NG. I have sat
back and read posts and pleas from the board to have developers/publishers
show more support to the community. More features that they want. Ed is
indeed one of the more vocal ones in this respect. He often has great
suggestions and anecdotes about what he thinks should be added to games in
the way of features, etc.
Indeed many of the things he has suggested over the years were already in
place by Relay. Many of the features we employ were a direct result of
suggestions from the community.
We quietly plug along recruiting developer/publisher support with little
fanfare. Now finally a developer (BB) agrees to support us, and we in turn
suggest features that the community has asked for and indeed Ed himself
voiced desires for.
What happens in return. Ed turns around and $hits on BB and us for doing it.
It caught me off guard, and to be honest the post I think you are referring
to was made during one of my "why do I even bother doing this for them"
episodes. Probably uncalled for, but does not diminish my contempt. I always
feel contempt for contradiction... its just me I guess.
Malicious... hmmm... yes that post probably could be construed that way.
Probably uncalled for, but as stated above.... a true representation of my
feelings of contempt.
Deviousness... I am a bit dumbfounded by this one to be honest. No reply
since I have no idea where that one came from.
Conceit... I think you misconstrued Pride for conceit. It is true that I
have a lot of pride for what my team has done. You see about 40% of what we
can do, and the remaining 60% is ready to deploy once we get support from
the developers/publishers at the development stage of the game.
Indeed I remember reading something from you that stated programmers are a
proud breed. I believe it wasn't that long ago too.
We have made an offer in good faith to RTRank in an attempt to ensure their
continued existence. They have turned it down. What more are we to do?
Cheers,
Schumi
http://rt.relaygames.com
> > BugBear/JoWood are among a very small few publishers/developers who have
> > actually acted upon detailed and beneficial features suggestions/etc.
and
> > implemented them in a patch.
> > With all due respect... your opinions are based on ignorance (the true
> > meaning of the word... to form an opinion without the facts).
> With similar respect... you actions towards Ed and RTrank show an
abundance of
> arrogance (proud contempt of others), maliciousness (being deliberately
> harmful), deviousness (being not straightforward), and conceit (unduly
high
> opinion of own abilities).
> You would make Microsoft very proud!
> /Jens
I may be laboring under the misconception that you are an intelligent person. If
that is not the case, I am completely wrong in my assesment of you and your site
for which I must apologize. However, I will try to explain why I characterized
your behavior using those words. Mentioning Ed probably confused the issue,
which is my mistake as I was mainly thinking about Relay and RTRank.
Arrogance:
Throughout your entire "defense" of your deal with BB/JW you have presented
yourself and your company as representatives if the "online racing community",
giving the racers what they want. You have electively chosen what "we" (a very
multifaceted group) want and thus acted arrogantly by removing any sort of
choice from us. I do not speak for this community, but neither do you, but you
sure act that way. Also, pretending that the readers can not see through your
smoke and mirror act shows contempt towards us as you take pride in your
abilities to deceive. That is arrogant.
Deviousness:
You keep pretending that you offered RTRank an acceptable solution knowing full
well that it is complete rubbish. You guys want exposure and more members. You
want to take over all of the RTRank drivers who have not yet registered with you
and this is one way of getting them into your database. Claiming anything else
is deviousness. You knew, that your arrangement with BB/JW would give you an
effective monopoly and in effect shut down RTRank (and any other site with
similar aspirations), and this was undoubtedly one of your goals unless you are
really dumb. It would have been very simple for RT to keep the old high-score
file along with the new one, and you must have known it and probably vetoed it,
if you were smart. RT could even have written the stage-times to a plain-text
file (like GPL and other games), which would have been a perfectly valid answer
for RTRank. Presenting your solution as "the only one" whilst knowing about a
much better one is plain and simple deviousness. You could also have warned
RTRank about your exclusive deal with BB/JW much, much earlier withour giving
away details or compromising your deal, thus warning the people behind the
RTRank site not to spend too much time on it. You elected to be devious instead.
Maliciousness:
You have done everything you could to sabotage RTRank and kill off the
"competion". Your offer is blatantly in your own interest for snatching up the
few (?) subscribers you have not yet registered at Relay and cannot be seen as
anything but shrewd business practice. You have deliberately (again assuming you
are clever) prevented RT from supporting mulitiple sites. That, in my book, is
maliciousness.
Conceit:
Yes, a *good* programmer should be proud. And I have absolutely no reason to
believe that the Relay-team is anything but highly skilled at design, coding,
etc. But thinking that you are better than everybody else is not pride,- it is
conceit. For instance, you make a lot of claims about being the best this and
that on your sponsorship pages (http://sponsor.relaygames.com/). Without
checking pretty much each and every site showing ads on the WWW now *and* in the
past, you have no way of knowing whether anybody does or did it better, do you?
Have you checked the various patent sites *worldwide* for similar claims? (Yes,
your software is patent pending). On other words, you guys are conceited. As is
beliving you are better at designing/running a lap/stage comparison site than
anybody else who *might* have had the chance, had you not railroaded them.
/Jens
> I am a bit confused by your post in some respects.
> As far as the contempt I have shown Ed... granted. It is contempt without a
> doubt. Why do I have this contempt? The reasons are simple:
> Like you and many others, I have been a frequenter of this NG. I have sat
> back and read posts and pleas from the board to have developers/publishers
> show more support to the community. More features that they want. Ed is
> indeed one of the more vocal ones in this respect. He often has great
> suggestions and anecdotes about what he thinks should be added to games in
> the way of features, etc.
> Indeed many of the things he has suggested over the years were already in
> place by Relay. Many of the features we employ were a direct result of
> suggestions from the community.
> We quietly plug along recruiting developer/publisher support with little
> fanfare. Now finally a developer (BB) agrees to support us, and we in turn
> suggest features that the community has asked for and indeed Ed himself
> voiced desires for.
> What happens in return. Ed turns around and $hits on BB and us for doing it.
> It caught me off guard, and to be honest the post I think you are referring
> to was made during one of my "why do I even bother doing this for them"
> episodes. Probably uncalled for, but does not diminish my contempt. I always
> feel contempt for contradiction... its just me I guess.
> Malicious... hmmm... yes that post probably could be construed that way.
> Probably uncalled for, but as stated above.... a true representation of my
> feelings of contempt.
> Deviousness... I am a bit dumbfounded by this one to be honest. No reply
> since I have no idea where that one came from.
> Conceit... I think you misconstrued Pride for conceit. It is true that I
> have a lot of pride for what my team has done. You see about 40% of what we
> can do, and the remaining 60% is ready to deploy once we get support from
> the developers/publishers at the development stage of the game.
> Indeed I remember reading something from you that stated programmers are a
> proud breed. I believe it wasn't that long ago too.
> We have made an offer in good faith to RTRank in an attempt to ensure their
> continued existence. They have turned it down. What more are we to do?
> Cheers,
> Schumi
> http://rt.relaygames.com
> > > I think you'll be pleasantly surprised with the patch if/when you ever
> buy
> > > the game Ed.
> > > BugBear/JoWood are among a very small few publishers/developers who have
> > > actually acted upon detailed and beneficial features suggestions/etc.
> and
> > > implemented them in a patch.
> > > With all due respect... your opinions are based on ignorance (the true
> > > meaning of the word... to form an opinion without the facts).
> > With similar respect... you actions towards Ed and RTrank show an
> abundance of
> > arrogance (proud contempt of others), maliciousness (being deliberately
> > harmful), deviousness (being not straightforward), and conceit (unduly
> high
> > opinion of own abilities).
> > You would make Microsoft very proud!
> > /Jens
--David Cook (Creator of RTRank)
Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2002 9:39 PM
Subject: Copy of r.a.s post
> Hi Christoph,
> Is this good enough for your lust for ***?
> Cheers,
> Jens
> ------------ r.a.s. post ---------------
> Schumi,
> I may be laboring under the misconception that you are an intelligent
person
> You have done everything you could to sabotage RTRank and kill off the
> "competion". Your offer is blatantly in your own interest for snatching up
the
> few (?) subscribers you have not yet registered at Relay and cannot be
seen as
> anything but shrewd business practice.
They claim we are teh ones who are being deceptive. I think the proof is in
the pudding. The RTRank admins are now hiding behind pseudonyms on teh
forums as to not damage their transparent facade.
They are not interested in teh community. They are only interested in
themselves.
A pity really... I hoped we could have done things with them in the future.
Guess not anymore.
Cheers,
Schumi
> Hi!
> > Feel free to join the discussion and throw a little wood on the
> > fire.
> > Oyvind and I are known there as being from RTRank, so we try to be as
> > polite as possible (very hard in my case, I tend to react more emotional
> > and have to say sorry later ;-)). That is one reason why I have only
> > joined once in the discussion on the forum. I write a reply, think about
> > it, edit it, think again and in the mean time Oyvind has come up with a
> > perfect answer.
> Dont think about it! Typos increase the awareness of the readers on
> your text and a flamewar is always fun :)
> BTW: My 0.02 cent as "CatchMyDrift" are in teh forum. I kept it ironic
> and offensive - no flames so far. But schumi will start it now - i
> hope...
> CU!
> "emacs is a great operating system - but the editor suxx"
- David Cook
> They claim we are teh ones who are being deceptive. I think the proof is
in
> the pudding. The RTRank admins are now hiding behind pseudonyms on teh
> forums as to not damage their transparent facade.
> They are not interested in teh community. They are only interested in
> themselves.
> A pity really... I hoped we could have done things with them in the
future.
> Guess not anymore.
> Cheers,
> Schumi
> ----- Original Message -----
> Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2002 2:48 PM
> Subject: Re: Nope, nothing from BugBear/JoWooD today
> > Hi!
> > > Feel free to join the discussion and throw a little wood on the
> > > fire.
> > > Oyvind and I are known there as being from RTRank, so we try to be as
> > > polite as possible (very hard in my case, I tend to react more
emotional
> > > and have to say sorry later ;-)). That is one reason why I have only
> > > joined once in the discussion on the forum. I write a reply, think
about
> > > it, edit it, think again and in the mean time Oyvind has come up with
a
> > > perfect answer.
> > Dont think about it! Typos increase the awareness of the readers on
> > your text and a flamewar is always fun :)
> > BTW: My 0.02 cent as "CatchMyDrift" are in teh forum. I kept it ironic
> > and offensive - no flames so far. But schumi will start it now - i
> > hope...
> > CU!
> > "emacs is a great operating system - but the editor suxx"
Nor have I ever stated that I was an RTrank admin. Which I am not. I don't even
play Rally Trophy but should provent me from speaking out against what I feel is
Relay's business practices? Oh, in case you missed it: some of the confidential
corresponance was cc'd to the GPLRank admins.
I will stand behind every single one of my barbs as they appear to be flying
true and straight.
Sorry to see your morals go, David.
/Jens
Posting more or less private mailing list communications on Usenet is
generally considered bad netiquette.
Cheers,
uwe
- David Cook
> > -David Cook (Creator of RTRank)
> Yes, I am. I did not post confidential mail in a public newsgroup. I did
not
> hide behind a pseudonym. I did not deliberately mislead people in the name
of
> business. I spoke out against the predators of the sim racing community,
as I
> see them.
> Nor have I ever stated that I was an RTrank admin. Which I am not. I don't
even
> play Rally Trophy but should provent me from speaking out against what I
feel is
> Relay's business practices? Oh, in case you missed it: some of the
confidential
> corresponance was cc'd to the GPLRank admins.
> I will stand behind every single one of my barbs as they appear to be
flying
> true and straight.
> Sorry to see your morals go, David.
> /Jens