> Any other safety devices you would like to see become optional?
Or worse. <g>
--
Fester
Restrictor plate racing killed Dale Earnhardt.
> Any other safety devices you would like to see become optional?
--
Fester
Restrictor plate racing killed Dale Earnhardt.
I haven't seen any definitive statements by the doctors who treated Dale
that the HANS device definitely wouldn't have saved him. The statements
I've seen were that "we don't know" or "the HANS device might not have
saved him".
Alison
>It was bad luck, nothing more, nothing less...
>-Larry
>> You're new to racing apparently. Everyone is familiar with the HANS
>Device.
>> NASCAR doesn't mandate it, but it probably should. Dale was very
>old-school and
>> refused to use much of the modern safety equipment many other drivers use.
>He
>> died because of it. And no, his life would not have been saved just
>because of a
>> HANS system. Ridiculous! :(
>> --
>> -------------------------------------
>> Morgan Vincent Wooten
>> GPLRank: +10.02
>> http://home.earthlink.net/~morganv00/
>> -------------------------------------
>> > I just saw a news story about the race. In it, they were saying that
>there
>> > is this device called H.A.N.S.
>> > It stands for "Head And Neck Support".
>> > It's a device that the drivers wear around their shoulders, kind of like
>a
>> > "U" shape device, which has an attachment at the back, for a short strap
>> > that goes directly to the back of the helmet.
>> > The way it works is that, it prevents the head from moving too far
>forward
>> > in a front-on crash. When such an accident happens, the neck muscles on
>a
>> > particular driver may be strong, but the problem occurs at the base of
>the
>> > skull where the breakage actually occurs.
>> > They also said that in Nascar, it's not compulsory, as it is in other
>auto
>> > sports. Only 4 or 5 drivers are currently using the device. They also
>said
>> > that the last 7 deaths that have occured, would have been prevented if
>the
>> > drivers were wearing this device.
>> > According to the story, Dale knew about the device and had seen the
>videos
>> > of crash tests, but he didn't want to use it.
>> > If you like, you can read more about it here:
>> > http://www.racingone.com/article.asp?artnum=4996
Remove the spam blocker NOSPAM to email me.
http://eaglewoman.maximumspeed.net
Restictor plates slow the cars in the wrong way, why not just reduce engine
size or something that won't lead to exaggerated drafting?
I hope you wouldn't like to see seat-belts become optional, and helmets, and
fire-proof overalls, and side-impact protection, and those anti-flip things
on the roof (can you tell I don't watch a lot of Nascar? ;) ), etc etc.
Even if racing fans do go just to see crashes, we can have crashes with less
chance of fatalities. And the series will lose appeal if it continues to
lose the top drivers in accidents. I can't see a good argument against
making HANS compulsory. Cramping the drivers style isn't a good argument
either, that's why Nascar don't let them race in t-shirt, jeans and baseball
cap.
That's all true, and indeed I would guess that every safety device can
actually be a hindrance under certain conditions, *but* you have to weigh
the benefits against the harm for each device, and if it will save more
lives than it takes, then in the long wrong it's better to have it.
> I haven't seen any definitive statements by the doctors who treated Dale
> that the HANS device definitely wouldn't have saved him. The statements
> I've seen were that "we don't know" or "the HANS device might not have
> saved him".
> Alison
> >It has been said time and time again, a HANS device would not have saved
> >him. The Dr's said so, and the Autopsy Report makes it pretty clear...
> >It was bad luck, nothing more, nothing less...
> >-Larry
> >> You're new to racing apparently. Everyone is familiar with the HANS
> >Device.
> >> NASCAR doesn't mandate it, but it probably should. Dale was very
> >old-school and
> >> refused to use much of the modern safety equipment many other drivers
use.
> >He
> >> died because of it. And no, his life would not have been saved just
> >because of a
> >> HANS system. Ridiculous! :(
> >> --
> >> -------------------------------------
> >> Morgan Vincent Wooten
> >> GPLRank: +10.02
> >> http://home.earthlink.net/~morganv00/
> >> -------------------------------------
> >> > I just saw a news story about the race. In it, they were saying that
> >there
> >> > is this device called H.A.N.S.
> >> > It stands for "Head And Neck Support".
> >> > It's a device that the drivers wear around their shoulders, kind of
like
> >a
> >> > "U" shape device, which has an attachment at the back, for a short
strap
> >> > that goes directly to the back of the helmet.
> >> > The way it works is that, it prevents the head from moving too far
> >forward
> >> > in a front-on crash. When such an accident happens, the neck muscles
on
> >a
> >> > particular driver may be strong, but the problem occurs at the base
of
> >the
> >> > skull where the breakage actually occurs.
> >> > They also said that in Nascar, it's not compulsory, as it is in other
> >auto
> >> > sports. Only 4 or 5 drivers are currently using the device. They also
> >said
> >> > that the last 7 deaths that have occured, would have been prevented
if
> >the
> >> > drivers were wearing this device.
> >> > According to the story, Dale knew about the device and had seen the
> >videos
> >> > of crash tests, but he didn't want to use it.
> >> > If you like, you can read more about it here:
> >> > http://www.racingone.com/article.asp?artnum=4996
> Alison
> Remove the spam blocker NOSPAM to email me.
> http://eaglewoman.maximumspeed.net
I'd use any safety device that was developed. And I'd be the first to try it
out, if given the opportunity.
But I realise, everyone is different.
> I think you can count the number of drivers that do on one hand...
> -Larry
> > I just saw a news story about the race. In it, they were saying that
there
> > is this device called H.A.N.S.
> > It stands for "Head And Neck Support".
> > It's a device that the drivers wear around their shoulders, kind of like
a
> > "U" shape device, which has an attachment at the back, for a short strap
> > that goes directly to the back of the helmet.
> > The way it works is that, it prevents the head from moving too far
forward
> > in a front-on crash. When such an accident happens, the neck muscles on
a
> > particular driver may be strong, but the problem occurs at the base of
the
> > skull where the breakage actually occurs.
> > They also said that in Nascar, it's not compulsory, as it is in other
auto
> > sports. Only 4 or 5 drivers are currently using the device. They also
said
> > that the last 7 deaths that have occured, would have been prevented if
the
> > drivers were wearing this device.
> > According to the story, Dale knew about the device and had seen the
videos
> > of crash tests, but he didn't want to use it.
> > If you like, you can read more about it here:
> > http://www.racingone.com/article.asp?artnum=4996
The only way to save drivers from these sort of rapid deceleration
accidents (probably 75-100 instantaneous g's or more) is to reduce the
deceleration. Something like HANS will only transfer the deceleration
from the neck to inside the skull -- it's a "choice" between instant
death or lingering brain death. The two simplest ways would be a more
deformable chassis ("crush/crumple zones") or softer walls.
I'm not sure how far you can go on a more deformable chassis, with
the concrete walls and the cost constraints (team money) of NASCAR.
I think softer walls is a better bet. It will cost money, but it
will be series and track owner money (deeper pockets). The
experimental walls at Indy seemed to to work well (at least for a
small IROC field). I think the problem of debris cleanup time is
justifiable if it only occurs in rare (life-saving) cases. I'm not
sure how the Indy walls are built, but I picture a three-layer
structure: an inner wall that is strong enough to withstand "minor"
crashes (low force/g events in which a solid concrete wall wouldn't
harm drivers and wouldn't necessitate lengthy cleanup for minor
incidents) but that yields in high force/g events, a soft layer to
gradually decelerate the cars, and an outer concrete wall to protect
the fans.
While much has been made of it, I don't think Dale was sandbagging
to block. He just doesn't know how to do that. Looking at the
performance of the car and consdiring the numerous dings it got
through the race (particularly with Schrader in the pits), I think he
was giving it all he had, and those circumstances put him in 3rd and
blocking.
I don't "blame" Kenny, but my hunch is that the final tip from the
presence of Kenny's car put Dale's car at a much higher angle of
attack to the wall and significantly increased the force of impact. I
think that single factor probably made all the difference. :(
Also, someone you didn't mention is Sterling. I'm a Dale fan, but
to my eyes Sterling was holding his line and Dale came down into him
(either consciously or that's just the way the car went), starting it
all off. All of the harrassment that he's getting now over the
incident only makes a sad situation that much sadder.
Also, I haven't had the heart to watch the replays enough, but what
did Dale's spotter say just before the crash? He had been saying
"three wide, car low", then there was something different, then Dale
moved down the track. Maybe we can "blame" the spotter too while
we're at it. :(
Well, Dale himself was running pretty fast and loose out there.
But he's Dale, he's invincable... :(
And racing *made* his life for all these years...
"But in a way, fear is a big part of racing, because if there was
nothing to be frightened of, and no limit, any fool could get into
a motor car and racing would not exist as a sport." -- Jim Clark
> Even if racing fans do go just to see crashes, we can have crashes with less
> chance of fatalities. And the series will lose appeal if it continues to
> lose the top drivers in accidents. I can't see a good argument against
> making HANS compulsory. Cramping the drivers style isn't a good argument
> either, that's why Nascar don't let them race in t-shirt, jeans and baseball
> cap.
So did the drivers in the race. Who the hell are you to tell them what
risks they should be allowed to take?
Joe McGinn"
The actual context of his quote may not apply, but IMHO the thought
itself does. Given most human's safety-conciousness, the bulk of the
equipment would be worn voluntarily as it is. When it's not my life to
save or lose, who the hell am I to dictate what *must* be worn?
Cheers
--
Fester
Restrictor plate racing killed Dale Earnhardt.
> > Fester
> > Restrictor plate racing killed Dale Earnhardt.
> no the wall did. plenty of other drivers survived the restrictor plate
> affair. We could go on and on all night what could or couldn't have
> caused the wreck. If anyone but Michael had been in front, would
> he have held back to block the pack? Do we blame Michael and Dale Jr?
> Do we blame Kenny Schrader? Do we blame Dale himself? No...
> remember the three very similar deaths last year came not on high
> banked tracks, nor plate tracks.
> Racing killed Dale Earnhardt.
> dave henrie
--
Fester
Restrictor plate racing killed Dale Earnhardt.
> That's all true, and indeed I would guess that every safety device can
> actually be a hindrance under certain conditions, *but* you have to weigh
> the benefits against the harm for each device, and if it will save more
> lives than it takes, then in the long wrong it's better to have it.
--
Fester
Restrictor plate racing killed Dale Earnhardt.
> But I will say this...Sterling Marlin has received several death
> threats via the phone, email, and snail mail. This behaivor by
> 'fans' of Dale is sad.
--
Fester
Restrictor plate racing killed Dale Earnhardt.
quoting in part...
"It turns out, however, that Earnhardt didn't die from a basilar skull
fracture (although HANS demands are today running in every mainstream
U.S. newspaper). Preliminary autopsy results released late Monday
revealed that Earnhardt suffered a skull fracture which ran from the
front to the back of his head -- not the base. Further eroding the
HANS cause, there was no spinal damage, although the crash did break
Earnhardt's sternum (previously broken in a crash in 1996), eight left
ribs and his left ankle.
"Rib, sternum and especially leg injuries are relatively common in
motor sport; a host of veteran drivers walk with what is known as
"Lola limp" after crashing British-made Lola race cars in the 1970s.
But Earnhardt's skull fracture is puzzling; the autopsy reported
"blunt trauma injury" to the back of the head. This isn't usually an
injury caused by the skull *** forward, as is basilar skull
injury. It's caused by something hitting the rear of Earnhardt's crash
helmet hard enough to break his skull. That's an enormous hit. "
"But in a way, fear is a big part of racing, because if there was
nothing to be frightened of, and no limit, any fool could get into
a motor car and racing would not exist as a sport." -- Jim Clark