rec.autos.simulators

hehe, thanks mate! :)

I think i'd better elaborate on my thought.

Saving in the middle of a race I'm thinking of here, NOT in between
sessions. the former is an excellent method of cheating yourself.

I cried for weeks when I found out WW drove all his amazing laps from
F10. :(

Spoke to Tony and Chris about this yesterday at Goodwood. Tony didn't
see how it could be implemented. I told him how it could, and he said it
was a great idea for a 'league admin. option'. :)

No further explanation needed.

We have bucket loads of these. WRL, I hope, will concentrate on the more
interesting formulae.

Same as 5.

I've changed my mind! Ovals can be fun. :)

Will help keep the filth out.

I own to in RL. But thinking about it...250cc jobbies at long circuits
would be a blast.

Changed my mind about this. :) There's a fantasy track called Legends2
by Martin Cooper, really great track! AND one of the corners has been
named after me! Fame at last. :)

All those nerds sitting in bedrooms, grinding out lap after lap at the
expense of their social life, they need saving from themselves!

But seriously, some sort of tyre allowance, maybe? Download new sets of
*** for off-line use on a weekly basis, but when you've ruined 'em,
that's your lot until next week.

You would have a tyre inventory, which you would have to manage. Tyres
would be precious and would have to be treated with respect. The
inventory would only hole so many tyres too, so no hoarding! Worn ones
would be deleted leaving room for the new.

EVERYONE in the CP ALL the time, thank you very much!

...

Good online code in the very essence of WRL. I haven't raced off-line
since 1998, time spent developing AI is time wasted for polishing the
more important aspects. Yeah do it, but wait until last.

A new one:

15. No damage level other than realistic.

I remember racing in the early days of GPL, and having some hot shoe
behind me. He kept crashing and even shift-r'd once. But after every
crash, about five laps later, he would catch me up! He overtook in the
end on the last lap. THAT is ***!

Cheers

Gerry

hehe, thanks mate! :)

I think i'd better elaborate on my thought.

Saving in the middle of a race I'm thinking of here, NOT in between
sessions. the former is an excellent method of cheating yourself.

I cried for weeks when I found out WW drove all his amazing laps from
F10. :(

Spoke to Tony and Chris about this yesterday at Goodwood. Tony didn't
see how it could be implemented. I told him how it could, and he said it
was a great idea for a 'league admin. option'. :)

No further explanation needed.

We have bucket loads of these. WRL, I hope, will concentrate on the more
interesting formulae.

Same as 5.

I've changed my mind! Ovals can be fun. :)

Will help keep the filth out.

I own to in RL. But thinking about it...250cc jobbies at long circuits
would be a blast.

Changed my mind about this. :) There's a fantasy track called Legends2
by Martin Cooper, really great track! AND one of the corners has been
named after me! Fame at last. :)

All those nerds sitting in bedrooms, grinding out lap after lap at the
expense of their social life, they need saving from themselves!

But seriously, some sort of tyre allowance, maybe? Download new sets of
*** for off-line use on a weekly basis, but when you've ruined 'em,
that's your lot until next week.

You would have a tyre inventory, which you would have to manage. Tyres
would be precious and would have to be treated with respect. The
inventory would only hole so many tyres too, so no hoarding! Worn ones
would be deleted leaving room for the new.

EVERYONE in the CP ALL the time, thank you very much!

...

Good online code in the very essence of WRL. I haven't raced off-line
since 1998, time spent developing AI is time wasted for polishing the
more important aspects. Yeah do it, but wait until last.

A new one:

15. No damage level other than realistic.

I remember racing in the early days of GPL, and having some hot shoe
behind me. He kept crashing and even shift-r'd once. But after every
crash, about five laps later, he would catch me up! He overtook in the
end on the last lap. THAT is ***!

Cheers

Gerry

Ok, I still disagree with:

It's only cheating if you use it to recover from crashes.  It seems like most
people who are against a save game think that's the only reason people use it.
Some need their computers to do other things, etc.  Besides, if the people are
only cheating themselves, why should you or I care?

I don't see what difference it makes.  Some people say that using a joystick
gives you an advantage because of faster response.  Others feel that joystick
users are arcade racers who aren't serious.  I'm curious - do you guys make the
same determinations towards a guy using a $1000 ECCI vs. a guy using a $50 T2?
If so, why?  If not, why think that way about joystick users?

How?  A tougher driving model won't keep people out - it will just make it
harder for them to control the car cleanly.  Thus, ruining more races.

As opposed to grinding out lap after lap online? :-)

Real teams can *always* buy more tires, if it's in their budget...

Consider that most people here are more '***' then the general population.
 I'm sure that at least 75% of the game buyers still race against AI
frequently.  It's even suggested in a couple of my leagues to run against the
AI to get used to running in traffic.

Agreed.  I hate the fact that I can keep it on the track, with no
spins/off-course excursions, and still lose to someone who crashed 3 or 4 times
and shift-r'd twice.  Someone who's 4-5 seconds faster per lap(it happens)
could crash every 2 laps and STILL finish ahead.  But the flipside of that is
being taken out in a T1 skirmish, or warp.  Enough of those, and we might want
a lesser damage option.

Eldred
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An option for red flag restarts would be nice.  I wish F1 2002 did
this actually.

Jason

Ideally, the damage would remain on your car of course, except for
whatever your pit crew could realistically repair.

Jason

says...

Is that possible?
What else could one possibly do with a computer besides racing?
I guess we all have our priorities... <grin>

    Norbert

More fiction from the old original vapour brain. <G>

I suppose you could cheat at hotlapping. You know, nail the first
sector, pause and save on the straight, just keep doing that until you
get the perfect lap.

A THOUGHT; that would destroy hotlapping charts! Ok lets have a save
game feature. ;)

Joysticks are faster than wheel and pedals, without doubt. I think they
are banned in RL F1 because they are seen as just not being the proper
way to drive a car. I don't know of any real race car, past or present,
that wre/are equipped with them. using one just goes against the grain,
for me anyway.

There is talk of a GPL league which only allows people to race with a
GPL USB Shifter plus wheel and pedals. All on the honour system of
course. WRL would be better if it had the option to disallow joysticks
in the league admin. options. Yes/no?

On the Ecci and T2 thing; a wheel is a wheel in my book.

THOUGHT: option to insist on FFB for realism league admins.

I'm not asking for a tougher model, just no damped down one.

Indeed, but unlimited tyres is unrealistic. Limited supply would add a
nervous edge to the driving, forcing people to drive with more caution.
Could have a fundamental effect on driving standards as a whole?

No AI in RL.

T1 skirmishes are and always have been a problem even in the best
leagues from what I've seen. Oh yeah, and in RL too. So again I think
this would force people to have a good long look at the way they race.

As for warp; I think ping and quality restriction would help with that.

Cheers

Gerry

hopefully id be racing in a league of top pros :)

Surely this would be ideally placed as a "future addon" for league racing.
Leagues could set the resources of all participants, including budget,
tyres, engines or whatever.  Of course this wouldn't stop people practicing
as much as they want offline (unless leagues can also control their own
created tracks and allow only online practice on those tracks via their
league) but it would mean league participants would have to look after
their tyres over a racing "weekend" or meeting.  Aside from that, if
someone is going to spend potentially 100 on the sim, I'd let them have as
many tyre-tokens as they want :o)

cheers
John

That's one approach.

You don't think it would add a little something to the experience to
have to look after them in a realistic may all the time? I say make it
part of the core. That way it wouldn't be the lone hotlappers with a
high boredom threshold that that appear to be talented, but the drivers
that actually are truly talented.

Gerry

Views expressed are for the purposes of sparking debate.

Um, read computer racing newsgroups...? :-)

And some have families...

Eldred
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Hehe...

There are people who say that an ECCI is faster than a T2 - more precise
control, etc.

That would SUCK - many people still don't own a FF wheel... :-(

I'd rather people practice as much as possible offline, and thus bring better
car control abilities to online races.

See above.  Better they crash a few computer cars than take out the field
online because they're nervous in traffic.

I've seen people's connections go to hell AFTER they've connected.  So the
restriction might be useless after that.
I like the longer, full-damage races for a selfish reason.  That's a good way
for me to have a good finishing position.  People get tired in long races(or
simply crash out before that), and I can move up.  Look at my online GP's for
GPL.  I've finished on the podium on maybe 5 out of 7 I've run(or 7 for 9,
something like that).  I'm also usually the last car running.  I don't have the
speed to actually compete, so I have to outlast 'em...<g>

Eldred
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You pays your money and takes your choice.

Why would it suck if it was used in a full realism league where FFB was
mandatory?

Yeah, but ATM people don't do quality practice, do they. Just look at
the overall standard of driving on VROC and in N2002. Limited tyres
would instil in people the need to be consistent.

Racing AI makes people sloppy, IMO.

That's what I'm leaning to. There's too much unrealistic attitudes in
sim racing, which has to change.

In RL fear is the big deterrent. We can simulate fear with a good ol'
format c: command, or something like that. <G>

Gerry

Maybe, but the liberal in me says, if some hotlapping "insect" (ducks for
cover) ponies up a hundred quid and helps this software (not game) be a
success, then I won't loose sleep over how many sets of virtual Avons they
get through.  

Maybe you could have an optional "career" setting which allocates a budget
to you on a weekly/monthly basis, for your own simulation pleasure.

Maybe this "***" mode could be logged on the internet, and maybe
leagues could have a requirement that any potential members had, eg, logged  
50 hours of "***" practice time, or 200 laps of a specified circuit,
before allowing admission?

Individual servers could have similar requirements.

As long as these things can be recorded/monitored, they don't even have to
be built in, leagues could build on top of them.

cheers
John