rec.autos.simulators

>>> Well. I guess Tom can forget about playing GPL, RB2, LB2 and F15 then.

>>That's true...but...we all know that both Sierra and Papyrus have VERY
>>poor track records in regards to the decisions they've made with 3D.

>Well, Phil, I beg to differ. *Without* D3D, Nascar2 is, by far,  one
>of the all-time top-selling sims/sports titles. Currently, GPL is
backordered
>on lots of sites. EBWorld sold their initial allotment prior to ship. I
picked up
>my copy from the local EB on release day, and ALL copies were allocated
>within 1 hour of store opening. I live in the South. This is Nascar
country.
>That didn't matter in this case, since Papyrus' reputation is well-known
>and lots of people here are thrashing thru the Eiffel forest, as I write
>this.

>Doesn't sound, to me, as if they are making lots of bad decisions at
>Papyrus. I wish I had a nickel for every copy of Nascar* they sold,
>how about you?

>>Sierra will lose many sales of GPL due to the lack of up-to-date D3D
>>support and the extended DX6 feature sets.

>Why would they want to worsen the graphics in GPL, and place more
>work on a D3D *software* graphics solution when the AI is occupying so
>much of the CPU already? I, for one, am REAL glad they chose to write
>DIRECTLY to the 3DFX and Rendition chips, to unburden the CPU.
>I like lots of AI goodness and I wouldn't want the cpu spinning its
>tiny wheels in a swamp of D3D .DLLS.

>Thanks PAPY!

>>It's a shame that Sierra can
>>not tap into the huge market that it is failing to address with such a
>>great product...and don't tell me they "can't" program it because "D3D is
>>too hard" to program for. I'm testing software now that in both cases the
>>D3D performance is superior to GLIDE, using D3D/DX6.

>Phil, since you're a tester of some upcoming D3D sims, I assume that you
know
>that individual software titles can be optimized for *anything*. I could
write a
>piece of software that would shriek on Voodoo, at say 100fps and get 10fps
on D3D,
>*or* vice-versa. Can you dig it? It's all a matter of where you put your
priorities
>in development.

>Believe me, I understand the goodness of having an all-encompassing API,
like
>D3D. The problem is, like anything in life that is general in nature,
rather than
>specialized, the results can be lessened vs. a tailored solution.

>>I have a V2 and a
>>TNT and test the software in as many combinations of API's and chipsets
>>as possible.

>>I'm convinced that for now, owning a 12 meg V2 card such in a PCI slot,
>>and a 16 meg TNT AGP_2 card, is the way to go. You're covered for D3D and
>>GLIDE.

>>-Surfer

>I agree *totally*, but to imply that somehow Glide (direct to metal) API is
>somehow inferior to a software based, general purpose API, like D3D, is a
>bit misleading, dontcha think? What if tomorrow, 3DFX announced a <$200
>card that was, say, 5X the speed of a VoodooII? Would you still tout
>the value of D3D vs. Glide? I bet they are working on one.  How much you
>want to bet?

>--
>// rrevved at some ISP which calls itself mindspring dot com //

>>Just to throw Brian Hook's $.02 in:

>>I was reading the QuakeIII piece in this month's PCGamer and there was a
>>quote from Brian Hook (ex-3dfx employee) in there I found interesting.  It
>>was particularly interesting because of what he says about the Hercules...

>>"The best consumer-level card for GL is the Rendition v2200 in the
Hercules
>>Thriller3D, or possible the Intel i740.  They are both comprehensive 2D/3D
>>boards, they have a lot of RAM.  Now, in the next two months
>>(like..now -j.), we're going to see the advent of Banshee, Savage3D and
Riva
>>TNI.  Out of those, I think Riva TNT is going to be the best, hands down.
I
>>think the Savage3D is going to be a great low cost board."

>>-Brian Hook
>>id Software

>Hey Jeffrey, ask Brian one question:

> "Which combat sims or racing simulators now use or
> plan to use OpenGL?"

>Let us know what he says.

>Thanks for your time.

>>>On Wed, 7 Oct 1998 21:01:38 -0700,

>>>>> Well. I guess Tom can forget about playing GPL, RB2, LB2 and F15 then.

>>>>That's true...but...we all know that both Sierra and Papyrus have VERY
>>>>poor track records in regards to the decisions they've made with 3D.

>>>Well, Phil, I beg to differ. *Without* D3D, Nascar2 is, by far,  one
>>>of the all-time top-selling sims/sports titles. Currently, GPL is
>>backordered
>>>on lots of sites. EBWorld sold their initial allotment prior to ship. I
>>picked up
>>>my copy from the local EB on release day, and ALL copies were allocated
>>>within 1 hour of store opening. I live in the South. This is Nascar
>>country.
>>>That didn't matter in this case, since Papyrus' reputation is well-known
>>>and lots of people here are thrashing thru the Eiffel forest, as I write
>>>this.

>>>Doesn't sound, to me, as if they are making lots of bad decisions at
>>>Papyrus. I wish I had a nickel for every copy of Nascar* they sold,
>>>how about you?

>>>>Sierra will lose many sales of GPL due to the lack of up-to-date D3D
>>>>support and the extended DX6 feature sets.

>>>Why would they want to worsen the graphics in GPL, and place more
>>>work on a D3D *software* graphics solution when the AI is occupying so
>>>much of the CPU already? I, for one, am REAL glad they chose to write
>>>DIRECTLY to the 3DFX and Rendition chips, to unburden the CPU.
>>>I like lots of AI goodness and I wouldn't want the cpu spinning its
>>>tiny wheels in a swamp of D3D .DLLS.

>>>Thanks PAPY!

>>>>It's a shame that Sierra can
>>>>not tap into the huge market that it is failing to address with such a
>>>>great product...and don't tell me they "can't" program it because "D3D
is
>>>>too hard" to program for. I'm testing software now that in both cases
the
>>>>D3D performance is superior to GLIDE, using D3D/DX6.

>>>Phil, since you're a tester of some upcoming D3D sims, I assume that you
>>know
>>>that individual software titles can be optimized for *anything*. I could
>>write a
>>>piece of software that would shriek on Voodoo, at say 100fps and get
10fps
>>on D3D,
>>>*or* vice-versa. Can you dig it? It's all a matter of where you put your
>>priorities
>>>in development.

>>>Believe me, I understand the goodness of having an all-encompassing API,
>>like
>>>D3D. The problem is, like anything in life that is general in nature,
>>rather than
>>>specialized, the results can be lessened vs. a tailored solution.

>>>>I have a V2 and a
>>>>TNT and test the software in as many combinations of API's and chipsets
>>>>as possible.

>>>>I'm convinced that for now, owning a 12 meg V2 card such in a PCI slot,
>>>>and a 16 meg TNT AGP_2 card, is the way to go. You're covered for D3D
and
>>>>GLIDE.

>>>>-Surfer

>>>I agree *totally*, but to imply that somehow Glide (direct to metal) API
is
>>>somehow inferior to a software based, general purpose API, like D3D, is a
>>>bit misleading, dontcha think? What if tomorrow, 3DFX announced a <$200
>>>card that was, say, 5X the speed of a VoodooII? Would you still tout
>>>the value of D3D vs. Glide? I bet they are working on one.  How much you
>>>want to bet?

>--
>// rrevved at some ISP which calls itself mindspring dot com //

>Dave

>>On Thu, 8 Oct 1998 07:18:40 -0400,

>>>Just to throw Brian Hook's $.02 in:

>>>I was reading the QuakeIII piece in this month's PCGamer and there was a
>>>quote from Brian Hook (ex-3dfx employee) in there I found interesting.
It
>>>was particularly interesting because of what he says about the
Hercules...

>>>"The best consumer-level card for GL is the Rendition v2200 in the
>Hercules
>>>Thriller3D, or possible the Intel i740.  They are both comprehensive
2D/3D
>>>boards, they have a lot of RAM.  Now, in the next two months
>>>(like..now -j.), we're going to see the advent of Banshee, Savage3D and
>Riva
>>>TNI.  Out of those, I think Riva TNT is going to be the best, hands down.
>I
>>>think the Savage3D is going to be a great low cost board."

>>>-Brian Hook
>>>id Software

>>Hey Jeffrey, ask Brian one question:

>> "Which combat sims or racing simulators now use or
>> plan to use OpenGL?"

>>Let us know what he says.

>>Thanks for your time.

>>>>On Wed, 7 Oct 1998 21:01:38 -0700,

>>>>>> Well. I guess Tom can forget about playing GPL, RB2, LB2 and F15
then.

>>>>>That's true...but...we all know that both Sierra and Papyrus have VERY
>>>>>poor track records in regards to the decisions they've made with 3D.

>>>>Well, Phil, I beg to differ. *Without* D3D, Nascar2 is, by far,  one
>>>>of the all-time top-selling sims/sports titles. Currently, GPL is
>>>backordered
>>>>on lots of sites. EBWorld sold their initial allotment prior to ship. I
>>>picked up
>>>>my copy from the local EB on release day, and ALL copies were allocated
>>>>within 1 hour of store opening. I live in the South. This is Nascar
>>>country.
>>>>That didn't matter in this case, since Papyrus' reputation is well-known
>>>>and lots of people here are thrashing thru the Eiffel forest, as I write
>>>>this.

>>>>Doesn't sound, to me, as if they are making lots of bad decisions at
>>>>Papyrus. I wish I had a nickel for every copy of Nascar* they sold,
>>>>how about you?

>>>>>Sierra will lose many sales of GPL due to the lack of up-to-date D3D
>>>>>support and the extended DX6 feature sets.

>>>>Why would they want to worsen the graphics in GPL, and place more
>>>>work on a D3D *software* graphics solution when the AI is occupying so
>>>>much of the CPU already? I, for one, am REAL glad they chose to write
>>>>DIRECTLY to the 3DFX and Rendition chips, to unburden the CPU.
>>>>I like lots of AI goodness and I wouldn't want the cpu spinning its
>>>>tiny wheels in a swamp of D3D .DLLS.

>>>>Thanks PAPY!

>>>>>It's a shame that Sierra can
>>>>>not tap into the huge market that it is failing to address with such a
>>>>>great product...and don't tell me they "can't" program it because "D3D
>is
>>>>>too hard" to program for. I'm testing software now that in both cases
>the
>>>>>D3D performance is superior to GLIDE, using D3D/DX6.

>>>>Phil, since you're a tester of some upcoming D3D sims, I assume that you
>>>know
>>>>that individual software titles can be optimized for *anything*. I could
>>>write a
>>>>piece of software that would shriek on Voodoo, at say 100fps and get
>10fps
>>>on D3D,
>>>>*or* vice-versa. Can you dig it? It's all a matter of where you put your
>>>priorities
>>>>in development.

>>>>Believe me, I understand the goodness of having an all-encompassing API,
>>>like
>>>>D3D. The problem is, like anything in life that is general in nature,
>>>rather than
>>>>specialized, the results can be lessened vs. a tailored solution.

>>>>>I have a V2 and a
>>>>>TNT and test the software in as many combinations of API's and chipsets
>>>>>as possible.

>>>>>I'm convinced that for now, owning a 12 meg V2 card such in a PCI slot,
>>>>>and a 16 meg TNT AGP_2 card, is the way to go. You're covered for D3D
>and
>>>>>GLIDE.

>>>>>-Surfer

>>>>I agree *totally*, but to imply that somehow Glide (direct to metal) API
>is
>>>>somehow inferior to a software based, general purpose API, like D3D, is
a
>>>>bit misleading, dontcha think? What if tomorrow, 3DFX announced a <$200
>>>>card that was, say, 5X the speed of a VoodooII? Would you still tout
>>>>the value of D3D vs. Glide? I bet they are working on one.  How much you
>>>>want to bet?

>>--
>>// rrevved at some ISP which calls itself mindspring dot com //

> "Which combat sims or racing simulators now use or
> plan to use OpenGL?"

>Let us know what he says.

>Thanks for your time.

>So you are admitting that it still sucks? <G>

>>D3D was poor soultion in the past. It IS MUCH, MUCH, MUCH easier to
program
>>under DX6 and supports MANY advanced features. Times change. Don't assume
>>because it sucked in the past, it will in the future.

>>Dave

>>>On Thu, 8 Oct 1998 07:18:40 -0400,

>>>>Just to throw Brian Hook's $.02 in:

>>>>I was reading the QuakeIII piece in this month's PCGamer and there was a
>>>>quote from Brian Hook (ex-3dfx employee) in there I found interesting.
>It
>>>>was particularly interesting because of what he says about the
>Hercules...

>>>>"The best consumer-level card for GL is the Rendition v2200 in the
>>Hercules
>>>>Thriller3D, or possible the Intel i740.  They are both comprehensive
>2D/3D
>>>>boards, they have a lot of RAM.  Now, in the next two months
>>>>(like..now -j.), we're going to see the advent of Banshee, Savage3D and
>>Riva
>>>>TNI.  Out of those, I think Riva TNT is going to be the best, hands
down.
>>I
>>>>think the Savage3D is going to be a great low cost board."

>>>>-Brian Hook
>>>>id Software

>>>Hey Jeffrey, ask Brian one question:

>>> "Which combat sims or racing simulators now use or
>>> plan to use OpenGL?"

>>>Let us know what he says.

>>>Thanks for your time.

>>>>>On Wed, 7 Oct 1998 21:01:38 -0700,

>>>>>>> Well. I guess Tom can forget about playing GPL, RB2, LB2 and F15
>then.

>>>>>>That's true...but...we all know that both Sierra and Papyrus have VERY
>>>>>>poor track records in regards to the decisions they've made with 3D.

>>>>>Well, Phil, I beg to differ. *Without* D3D, Nascar2 is, by far,  one
>>>>>of the all-time top-selling sims/sports titles. Currently, GPL is
>>>>backordered
>>>>>on lots of sites. EBWorld sold their initial allotment prior to ship. I
>>>>picked up
>>>>>my copy from the local EB on release day, and ALL copies were allocated
>>>>>within 1 hour of store opening. I live in the South. This is Nascar
>>>>country.
>>>>>That didn't matter in this case, since Papyrus' reputation is
well-known
>>>>>and lots of people here are thrashing thru the Eiffel forest, as I
write
>>>>>this.

>>>>>Doesn't sound, to me, as if they are making lots of bad decisions at
>>>>>Papyrus. I wish I had a nickel for every copy of Nascar* they sold,
>>>>>how about you?

>>>>>>Sierra will lose many sales of GPL due to the lack of up-to-date D3D
>>>>>>support and the extended DX6 feature sets.

>>>>>Why would they want to worsen the graphics in GPL, and place more
>>>>>work on a D3D *software* graphics solution when the AI is occupying so
>>>>>much of the CPU already? I, for one, am REAL glad they chose to write
>>>>>DIRECTLY to the 3DFX and Rendition chips, to unburden the CPU.
>>>>>I like lots of AI goodness and I wouldn't want the cpu spinning its
>>>>>tiny wheels in a swamp of D3D .DLLS.

>>>>>Thanks PAPY!

>>>>>>It's a shame that Sierra can
>>>>>>not tap into the huge market that it is failing to address with such a
>>>>>>great product...and don't tell me they "can't" program it because "D3D
>>is
>>>>>>too hard" to program for. I'm testing software now that in both cases
>>the
>>>>>>D3D performance is superior to GLIDE, using D3D/DX6.

>>>>>Phil, since you're a tester of some upcoming D3D sims, I assume that
you
>>>>know
>>>>>that individual software titles can be optimized for *anything*. I
could
>>>>write a
>>>>>piece of software that would shriek on Voodoo, at say 100fps and get
>>10fps
>>>>on D3D,
>>>>>*or* vice-versa. Can you dig it? It's all a matter of where you put
your
>>>>priorities
>>>>>in development.

>>>>>Believe me, I understand the goodness of having an all-encompassing
API,
>>>>like
>>>>>D3D. The problem is, like anything in life that is general in nature,
>>>>rather than
>>>>>specialized, the results can be lessened vs. a tailored solution.

>>>>>>I have a V2 and a
>>>>>>TNT and test the software in as many combinations of API's and
chipsets
>>>>>>as possible.

>>>>>>I'm convinced that for now, owning a 12 meg V2 card such in a PCI
slot,
>>>>>>and a 16 meg TNT AGP_2 card, is the way to go. You're covered for D3D
>>and
>>>>>>GLIDE.

>>>>>>-Surfer

>>>>>I agree *totally*, but to imply that somehow Glide (direct to metal)
API
>>is
>>>>>somehow inferior to a software based, general purpose API, like D3D, is
>a
>>>>>bit misleading, dontcha think? What if tomorrow, 3DFX announced a <$200
>>>>>card that was, say, 5X the speed of a VoodooII? Would you still tout
>>>>>the value of D3D vs. Glide? I bet they are working on one.  How much
you
>>>>>want to bet?

>>>--
>>>// rrevved at some ISP which calls itself mindspring dot com //

> Hey Rrevved dont confuse a good rant with facts....hehehe.

> Buy the Hardware for the Software, knuckleheads, not the other way
> around....sheesh.

> PAPA DOC

> >Hey Jeffrey, ask Brian one question:

> > "Which combat sims or racing simulators now use or
> > plan to use OpenGL?"

> >Let us know what he says.

> >Thanks for your time.

> Pierre PAPA DOC Legrand
> Pink Flamingo Pilot...

> http://home.earthlink.net/~plegrand/PINKFLAMINGO.htm