rec.autos.simulators

I vowed after buying NFS: HP (IV) that I would never get hoodwinked into

disappointments to me.  Based on feedback here at r.a.s. I decided to go for
number 5.

First off, I loved the original NFS and enjoy that type of fun, not
ultra-realistic title.

Second, the idea of the Porsche factory driver and evolution concept
appealed to me.

Third, I really wanted to like this title and with a few improvements it
would be on my list of favourite fun/non-serious games.

The problem for me stems largely from one thing: this is basically NFS III
and IV with a bit of window dressing and a very small improvement in driving
model (physics) department.  Yes, they canned-in the TTO (trailing throttle
oversteer), but one effect does not make a good driving model.  And even
that is overdone compared to the other feel or feedback.

Before I give my reasons, I just wanted to say that many people will get a
lot of fun out of this title.  It is not utter ***like SOS '37 or NASCAR
Revulsion, etc.  But if you think that the new Rally Championship is an
awesome arcadish simulator, then you will, like me, want to avoid NFS: PU
because it is just too far down the arcade path to enjoy even as a jump in
and have 10 minutes of light fun.

Major problems:

- driving model is a minor improvement over previous NFS titles (use this as
your guide--if you hated II, III and HS, then you will likely be gravely
disappointed at the lack of improvement...if you liked the previous titles,
then you will like this one a lot)

- the in-car dash display, once again, looks shitty and the gauges don't
match the HUD gauges (I really, really cannot believe that this is still
evident in the series...reminds me of curved pit roads in N3)

- the in-car sound is so atrocious as to make one question what planet the
designers were on...the rev range of the car, which shows idle to 6,000 or
7,000 rpm on the tach sounds like idle to about 1,200 rpm.  I have driven a
couple of 911s and have heard plenty more...they and every other Porsche are
not known for their smooth refined engines and they certainly sound nothing
like this game.  The out-of-car camera views yield a completely different
engine sound...one that sounds more like idle to about 3,000
rpm....!?!?!?!?!

- the FFB, as usual, is only well done where it involves driving over the
wooden planks in the covered bridge...forget much useful road feel even when
you crank it up and turn down all the other effects

- just like the previous titles, the controller is set-up with non-linear
input and has no option or adjustment...in other words it is set-up for
joysticks, not wheels.  I can't turn my wheel more than about 1/3 of the way
either direction without throwing the car into an uncontrollable spin...I
don't want to only use 1/3 of my wheel travel because the game is programmed
so badly that no one thought to include a wheel-oriented option and because
the cars can turn on a dime when you crank the wheel all the way (to help
the arcaders who can't figure out how to back up and restart after a
crash)...this is probably the most annoying problem in the whole game and,
again, I cannot believe that this was not corrected from past versions

- no tire squeal when skidding or sliding around a corner (another atrocious
hold-over from previous titles)

- damage model almost unrelated to what you damage (I don't mind having a
very, very liberal damage model--one where you can practically total the car
5 times over before it gives up, but when I go to the garage and fix the
damage, I would like to see some relationship to how I drove)

- ridiculously wide and unrealistic tracks (the scenery is an improvement
over II through HS, but the actual track designs are similarly
pathetic....all they have to do is look at the original NFS to see well
thought-out tracks)

On the plus side, the usually EA slickness is there and conceptually I would
give this title a 10/10--this should be an awesome ball of enjoyment, but I
just can't overlook the gaping flaws in this one.  If the original NFS could
have 3D graphics and a slightly updated driving model to reflect the times,
it would still blow this latest effort out of the water by far.  When EA
manages to release a future NFS title that can at least match the original
one for quality and attention to detail (in the things that count on this
newsgroup), I will keep it in my collection.

Marc.

--
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Marc Collins

Computers will never equal humans until they make mistakes and
blame them on other computers.
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Last night, I re-installed NFS-HS and I have to tell you, it was
PURE arcade. -Everything- about it was exaggerated from a real
life car. There is simply no comparison in the driving models
of these two titles.

In my opinion, of course.

--
* rrev at mindspring dot com *

I am a fan of the original NFS SE and I still have it. It's a great game,
especially on rally mode, but it does not come close to NFS:PU.

How can you say it's a slight improvement over NFS 4? I played the demo and
it sucked. I mean, it was crap. The car felt like you were floating, in
jumps you felt like you were suspened in air, then fell like a rock, and
there was virtually no skill involved.

In NFS:PU the car feels like it's on the road, the cars slide smoothly,
especially the old ones, the feeling of air is incredible, like in the
first, pendulum turns work nicely, spin outs are possible, and when you
slide around a corner with big slicks, then you can feel the friction and
how it pushes the car the other way a bit.

The damage I thought was pretty good, if you hit the front, you get bent
steering, if you hit the back, where the drivetrain goes to the wheels, you
get drivetrain damage. How is that in no way relevant to what you hit?

And the dash looks pretty damn good, crisper and clearer than GPL's, with a
P3 667mhz and a 32mb GForce SDR  running at 1024*768

And if you dont like the hud, turn it off with F5.

Okay, okay, well the incar sounds do kinda suck, but you know all the people
that edit all the NFS titles that this wont be a problem for people to
change it.

Yes, and the roads are a bit wide. But the dirt roads and later courses
arent all so wide.

Hmmm....Im a big rally fan and I liked RC2K. But it seems to have more or an
NFS HS physics model, (2 point physics) and how it kinda steers with the
center axis, instead of the front wheels like NFS PU. Actually, now, after
playing Rallymasters, all other rally games dont seem all that great.

Thanks,
Alex

I must've tried the run where you had to follow the arrows and hit the
cones about 8 times before I finally beat the deadline by less than
4/100's of a second. Very exhilarating!
Games that make you re-do stuff over and over until you get it right
usually get me really pissed off, but since the deadlines are all 4
minutes or less (so far), it's not as frustrating for me as a game
that has long missions -the Mechwarrior series for instance.

The replays are jaw-droppingly stunning on my middling TNT2.
As relaxed as the physics are, the car movement is so *right* in the
replays its amazing.
I can't remember anything hooking me this hard since MX Madness
(which I played in marathon 3 hour online sessions).

Realism and***pits be-damned (I toggle through the views depending
on the mission), I'm so diametrically opposed to Marks opinion on this
one that can barely convey it.

Only 30 bucks at EB, and I wouldn't have been complaining if I paid
50. If you're on the fence about it, and you love stuff like Viper,
you need to give this one a shot.

Tim

-Pav

I hear tire squeal all the time when I am going around corners. Do not know
why you are not hearing it.

I think you are missing something here to.  If I damage my car pretty bad,
if you go into the garage, you can see your car all banged up. In one race
where I got my roof to Yellow, in the garage it was all caved it to the
point I was wondering how my driver actually continued to sit in the car.

I have not had as much fun as I did going through the Factory Driver mode in
a long time in a driving game.

And if you think this mission is difficult, one much more difficult is
coming up... You have to drive forward, make a 180 turn within some
cones, drive backward, make another 180 within some cones again
(that's the most difficult part), slalom around some cones and make
another 360.
Took me about 30 tries :)

Andre

On Sun, 26 Mar 2000 21:46:35 -0500, "John Pavlicek"

Andre

Especially since I normally drive in Automatic mode and had to manually
shift for that one.

Once I realized though that they give you alot of time, I just took my time
with the reverse section of it and that allowed me to get by it.

I love this Factory Driver stuff, I hope they release some kind of new
"missions" for it.

So someone said Viper is alot like this?  that is one that I never did try.

The attraction to Viper, in my opinion, is the excellent physics modeling,
Force Feedback, and AI. If you haven't tried Viper you are missing
out on a fine sim, that is probably second only to GPL in driving realism.

    Pete

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I mentioned Viper. Viper isn't really the same, but I think if you
like Porsche Unleashed, you'll also like Viper...
Modern sports cars, mostly open tracks with some tricky decreasing
radius turns, and a career mode.
Viper's career isn't nearly as cool as the Factory Driver part of
Porshe Unleashed, but it's still a steal at the $20 it's selling for
now.

It's still the LAN game my buddies want to play most when they come
over.  Our Viper antics (like trying to slowing down to try to knock
somebody over the cliff before the guardrail starts in Mesa, and
spinning guys into lakes) would send most of the GPL stiff's here into
a tantrum.

Just kidding!

Tim

None of them will race with us.  All we ever play at lans are games like UT,
Q3, Motocross Madness.

Um, no. The driving model is completely different. And very realistic
for an arcade game.

I couldn't disagree more. This is the one for fans of the original
NFS, who were disappointed by the too arcady NFS 2, 3 and 4.

I agree the FF could be much better. It is better than most arcade
games though, and certainly better than NFS4.

Then you haven't learned how to drive these cars. It's the weight
transfer effects - the very thing that has changed so much about the
physics - that allow you to fully utilize the wheel, throttle, and
brakes.

Huh? My version has excellent tire squeal, that slowly ramps up as the
wheels lose grip. It's perfectly implemented.

The damage model is arcadish, but it doesn't really detract from the
game.

????!!!!!

The track designs are superb, the best thing about the game. A bit
wide, but that allows you to fully explore the driving model, and
maintain speed around many corners (if they are taken right). An
again, they are tracks that will finally appeal to fans of the
original game, after too many years of plain-jain circuit tracks.

In my opinion they have done just that, and in fact exceded it.

Joe McGinn
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Radical Entertainment