rec.autos.simulators

A little help - FF wheel

Graham

A little help - FF wheel

by Graham » Sun, 25 Jul 1999 04:00:00

ACT LABS Force RS seems the top one around, am I right or wrong?

I'm looking for one that obviously has the best FF and all that, as well as
a nice F1 type of look and feel.

Ok, You've all gone through this before but what do ya think? Whats the best
alround deal?

Andi

A little help - FF wheel

by Andi » Sun, 25 Jul 1999 04:00:00

There appears to be an opinion that ACT or Logitech are the best, both
appear to have pedal problems though. I currently use a Thrustmaster Force
GT (UK variant) which has gone obsolete I believe. The wheel is already
sloppy and the accuracy is very poor. I did ask TSW if they were going to
add FF to their wheels but the response was rather disappointing "FF is for
*** TSW make wheels for simulations' !

My plan at the moment is to get  a Logitech FF wheel but use my old
Thrustmaster Formula one pedals, apparently this can be done by plugging the
Logitech into the USB port (essential IMO for FF), plug the old TM wheel in
the game port. Most games can see all axes so you can calibrate the FF wheel
and the TM pedals. I have some experimenting to do but it sounds as though
it should work.

If Logitech or ACT are reading this, how about some decent pedals !

At the end of the day try to get  a trial as it is very much personal
preference.

FF is worth it, even my crappy TM model.

Andi.


>ACT LABS Force RS seems the top one around, am I right or wrong?

>I'm looking for one that obviously has the best FF and all that, as well as
>a nice F1 type of look and feel.

>Ok, You've all gone through this before but what do ya think? Whats the
best
>alround deal?

Woodie

A little help - FF wheel

by Woodie » Sun, 25 Jul 1999 04:00:00



>I did ask TSW if they were going to
>add FF to their wheels but the response was rather disappointing "FF is for
>*** TSW make wheels for simulations' !

When did this exchange take place?  Two months ago almost everyone here would
have agreed with TSW's position, now very few would.

Don McCorkle
Libertarian Motorsports

Thomas Enterprise

A little help - FF wheel

by Thomas Enterprise » Sun, 25 Jul 1999 04:00:00




>>I did ask TSW if they were going to
>>add FF to their wheels but the response was rather disappointing "FF is
for
>>*** TSW make wheels for simulations' !

Guys I'm not sure where this "quote" came from but I doubt it came from
anyone here at Thomas Enterprises.

We are looking into FF and have been since it first came into being a couple
years ago, we decided at that time that it wasnt practical due to several
reasons, number one being lack of serious sims supporting it and since it
contributes nothing toward faster laps or more race wins then serious racers
dont seem to place much value on it.

Another was and still is, the cost to the consumer for a quality product
such as ours equipped with FF, there are a lot of plastic toy wheels with FF
that sell for $200.00 or less, we cant possibly compete with these and dont
intend to try.

If there was sufficient demand for a quality FF equipped unit with a cost
range of $500.00 and up then we might possibly consider it, so far we dont
see this happening.

The Black C

A little help - FF wheel

by The Black C » Mon, 26 Jul 1999 04:00:00

Trev?  Is that you?
Graham

A little help - FF wheel

by Graham » Mon, 26 Jul 1999 04:00:00

I presume it is because "the worlds best ever sim" no need to mention that
it is GPL, had not FF up to a week ago, so FF was for games, now FF is in
GPL so FF is for sims, silly really but thats the simplest answer I can
think of
Andi

A little help - FF wheel

by Andi » Tue, 27 Jul 1999 04:00:00

The 'quote' from David Thomas Jr at Thomas Enterprise (and yes I've seen his
comment about how it couldn't possibly come from TSW, was dated 14th June
1999 and is copied precisely below.

============================================================================
======

Andi,

Keep an eye on Car and Driver Magazine over the next several months.  They
are doing a roundup of force feedback steering wheels, and they are using a
TSW Formula '99 as a non-FF comparison.  Other TSW owners who have tried FF
wheels have only confirmed our stance.  FF is for games, the TSW is for
Sims.

-David Thomas Jr.
Thomas Enterprises

============================================================================
========

Now that to me says no FF from Thomas!

Would you care to comment Mr Thomas?

I for one would buy one! so that's a positive order book you could have.

Andi.




>>I did ask TSW if they were going to
>>add FF to their wheels but the response was rather disappointing "FF is
for
>>*** TSW make wheels for simulations' !

>When did this exchange take place?  Two months ago almost everyone here
would
>have agreed with TSW's position, now very few would.

>Don McCorkle
>Libertarian Motorsports

Neil Rain

A little help - FF wheel

by Neil Rain » Wed, 28 Jul 1999 04:00:00


> The 'quote' from David Thomas Jr at Thomas Enterprise (and yes I've seen his
> comment about how it couldn't possibly come from TSW, was dated 14th June
> 1999 and is copied precisely below.

> ============================================================================
> ======

> Andi,

> Keep an eye on Car and Driver Magazine over the next several months.  They
> are doing a roundup of force feedback steering wheels, and they are using a
> TSW Formula '99 as a non-FF comparison.  Other TSW owners who have tried FF
> wheels have only confirmed our stance.  FF is for games, the TSW is for
> Sims.

> -David Thomas Jr.
> Thomas Enterprises

> ============================================================================
> ========

> Now that to me says no FF from Thomas!

> Would you care to comment Mr Thomas?

> I for one would buy one! so that's a positive order book you could have.

To be fair, the real reason they're not doing FF is that it would be
prohibitively expensive to build an FF wheel using the methods that they
use to build their wheels.

The advantage of a TSW is precisely that it uses robust, low-tech
components that are strong, reliable and work smoothly.

They are only a three-man company, after all!

Bear in mind that their current wheels don't require *any* circuit
boards of any kind, and they don't need to include any software either
(as it just uses the analogue gameport).

FF wheels require quite complex software and hardware by comparison, as
we've seen from other posts by people trying to build their own wheels.

Andi

A little help - FF wheel

by Andi » Wed, 28 Jul 1999 04:00:00

I have had a nice e-mail reply from TSW saying that they are looking at FF
and a way to make it reasonably priced. We will have to wait and see, but
I've started saving already.

Andi.

SNIP

Chris Schlette

A little help - FF wheel

by Chris Schlette » Wed, 28 Jul 1999 04:00:00

Yup.

Well, outside of the circuit boards, etc the rest of the components of a FF
wheel need to be pretty robust to withstand the forces placed on it, so this
would be a key starting point.

Righto.  I don't think they really have the technical expertice in-house,
nothing against them, to really do FF either.  Look how bad of job
Thrustmaster did with theirs, and they have a lot more experience dealing
with devices than TSW does.

Chris Schlette

A little help - FF wheel

by Chris Schlette » Wed, 28 Jul 1999 04:00:00

At 300 for a low-tech wheel, whats a FF wheel going to be pricewise EVEN if
they can do it? :)


> I have had a nice e-mail reply from TSW saying that they are looking at FF
> and a way to make it reasonably priced. We will have to wait and see, but
> I've started saving already.

> Andi.



> SNIP

> >To be fair, the real reason they're not doing FF is that it would be
> >prohibitively expensive to build an FF wheel using the methods that they
> >use to build their wheels.

> >The advantage of a TSW is precisely that it uses robust, low-tech
> >components that are strong, reliable and work smoothly.

> >They are only a three-man company, after all!

> >Bear in mind that their current wheels don't require *any* circuit
> >boards of any kind, and they don't need to include any software either
> >(as it just uses the analogue gameport).

> >FF wheels require quite complex software and hardware by comparison, as
> >we've seen from other posts by people trying to build their own wheels.

Thomas Enterprise

A little help - FF wheel

by Thomas Enterprise » Wed, 28 Jul 1999 04:00:00


>At 300 for a low-tech wheel, whats a FF wheel going to be pricewise EVEN if
>they can do it? :)

Figure a minimum starting point of $500.00, doubt we can do it for that
though but we're still looking into it.

We cater strictly to the *** crowd and its tough to compete with
companies having zillions of bucks for R&D, what we do we do well and our
success proves that :) but as for FF I really dont see it coming from us in
the forseeable future.

Pat Dotso

A little help - FF wheel

by Pat Dotso » Wed, 04 Aug 1999 04:00:00


> ........and since it
>contributes nothing toward faster laps or more race wins then serious
racers
>dont seem to place much value on it.

Tell that to all the "serious" racers I've beat in the past
several weeks with my Force RS :)   FF most definitely will
contribute to more race wins.

I like to think that Alison's experience with having me glued
to her rear for 20 laps at Monaco had something to do with
her getting an MSFF wheel the next day :)

At $500, I think you could sell a lot of them.  If you (or
anyone else) could deliver a kick a** wheel for $399,
you'd sell thousands.

--
Pat Dotson

Dave Henri

A little help - FF wheel

by Dave Henri » Thu, 05 Aug 1999 04:00:00

  Ah but Pat,  having raced offline via TPTCC and once at Kali,
I know you are certainly a way better than average sim racer.  You
could probably beat folks using your elbows on a keyboard...well..:)
  Glad to hear you like your FF!
dave henrie

Andrew

A little help - FF wheel

by Andrew » Fri, 06 Aug 1999 04:00:00

I'll buy one.  In fact, if you could get one on the market by the end of this
year I'd put a deposit down right now.  I've read every glowing review of your
wheel, listened to the few complaints from a disgruntled customer, researched
the wheels thoroughly and I'm ready to make a purchase.  The only problem....
I've only owned one wheel and that's a Logitech Wingman Formula Force and I'm
worried I'll be disappointed with any wheel without force feedback.

I'm even willing to be a guinea pig for any testing you plan on doing,
unfortunately I'm in Georgia and not right around the corner from you.  Good
luck on your development.

-Andrew
-remove the -nospam for all replies.


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