rec.autos.simulators

Well I play with damage on mostly, but turn it off when learning a enw
track.  Smoking the AI in the ovals is just no fun and this evens it all
out.

My question is the 'steering' problems you mentioned what would they be? I
have been tweaking the two steering options and cant seem to come up with
the right one so if you've any advice here I would love to hear it

I use the TM GP1

I must say I really like this game, has me totally hooked.  I didn't read
anything in this group unitl yesterday in search of steering answers, so I
am miffd at the complaints, it aint perfect but its better than most if not
all Formula sims I've played.

edk

To CPR drivers:

Anyone do much driving with damage ON?

The reason I ask is that I've developed what I think is a good setup
at Nazareth.  It lets me crank out 19.5-20.5 second laps in race trim
with full tanks.  Using it, I can quickly jump out ahead of the field
on raceday.  In fact, there's no reason I shouldn't lap the slower AI
several times before the race is done.  But I'm not.  The reason is
that I keep pushing too hard and tapping the outside wall, doing all
kinds of damage.  Of course, I could turn damage off and proceed to
torch the AI, but that's hardly realistic.  And it isn't CPR's
'steering problems' that are putting me into the wall.  I know the
enemy and it is me :).  I'm just too aggressive coming off the corners
and even if I hold it together for a good 5 or 6 laps...sooner or
later...TAP-smash-wheel+wing gone.  None of these are the fault of the
AI (which is doing a great job of avoiding me, even when I'm bouncing
off of walls), but I'm just curious as to whether others are doing
well on ovals with damage on.

The "kind word" I spoke of regarding CPR is that I find that its
rather fun even to lap around during practice sessions at Nazareth,
because the AI does a great job of holding its line, and working
through traffic is challenging and fun and everything ICR2 was and
more in that regard.

Cheers,

Randy
Randy Magruder
Contributing Reviewer
Digital Sportspage
http://www.digitalsports.com

Hi Randy,
               I wonder if you have finally touched on the reason I love
this sim. I always drive in Pro mode with damage on. In fact this is my one
complaint about the Zone. I go there and inevitably I tend to get smoked by
folks running Intermediate and Rookie. I guess it has to do with the fact
that they can run traction control and stay on track option. Now thats cool
and yes I can also but, I always practice the other way so....... even if I
did turn on these aids my ways have kinda been set if you know what I mean.
I already am driving a certain way its hard to force yourself to be
reckless once you have been practicing with damage on and the lesser grip
of Pro settings. To top it off I feel bad to ask others to change or race
Pro as it seems somewhat conceited sounding :-) As I dont consider myself a
Pro by any means. I am stoked that the new Cart-orl league is starting with
Pro only settings this will be good. But as to your post this is why I
always wondered when folks wrote in slamming CPR saying stuff like " Ya
bounce off the walls bang stuff out of the way how easy" well duh who was
driving? I think if folks gave this sim half a real try at a realistic
setting they just might have their hands full. BTW I wish you would post
your Australia tutorial as it helped me get from 1:38 down to 1:33.75 . On
second thought dont post that :-) Glad to see others enjoying this sim!
Aloha, Mike

Many people believe that even after the patch the control is not
precise.

The problem is, as I see it, that a lot of people are trying to fix
all their handling/steering problems with the control sliders rather
than the setups.  The fact is, the setups are just screwed under Build
90 (the patch).  The taking away of rear-end grip just messed up the
setups so bad that you can hardly apply throttle without spinning the
car, and so when you're trying to turn a corner or add throttle the
car just breaks into oversteer.  I usually turn up the null zone one
click, and set both speed-sensitive and non-linear at between 40-60%
and then work on the setup.  After the setup is stabilized, I might
touch the control sliders again.  

Look out! Incoming!  Seriously, there are people here who attack your
intelligence if you have the wherewithall to actually like this sim.
(and yes, its a sim, flaws and all).   I'm having a lot of fun with
it, too.  I am, however, very frustrated at the following problems
with this title:

1) No full course cautions, particularly on ovals.
2) Overkill on removing rear-end grip at high speeds
3) Setups not re-calibrated for balance with the new grip level
4) Deliberately sabotaged track accuracy (done to prevent shortcutting
chicanes since no black flags or underbody damage model done etc)
5) No tire temperatures
6) No plank wear indicators.
7) Slow AI on ovals
8) Missing telemetry items.
9) Brake pedal travel problems.

That oughtta do it for the big ones :)  In spite of these nagging
problems, there's still quite a lot of fun to be had in racing the AI
cars or online opponents, and once the grip (or lack thereof) is dealt
with in the garage and on the track, its every bit as fun as ICR2 was.

Randy
Randy Magruder
Contributing Reviewer
Digital Sportspage
http://www.racesimcentral.net/

There is a very important point here. When people complain that the AI isn't
very good with this sim (or others) because they can beat the AI too easily,
they, I'm sure, are driving with damage off. That makes it easy to be brave
and take chances because, obviously, there is no penalty for mistakes.
Putting the damage on is a totally different race. Actually, it's the way we
should always be driving whether it's hot lapping or qualifying. Fear of an
accident will effect times as much as anything else in the sim. I have a
feeling that many of the fast laps people get are with damage turned off.
Unfortunately, it's not really a good idea with internet racing because of
the warping but maybe in the near future. I've been doing it a lot more
lately and I wonder if you find yourself much more tense and a little
nervous during the race like I am?

David G Fisher

says...

Racing with damage on makes all the difference in the world, IMO, especially
the *mental* part of the game.  Last year, I ran a full season in GP2 with not
only damage on, but a personal commitment to ONLY start each race ONCE (i.e. no
do-overs).  I can tell you that my palms would sweat and my heart would pound
during those "do-or-die" races.  It adds to the thrill factor immensely.

Ed

--
Kevin
(Remove the "x-" prefix from my address in order to reply via email)

The damage is the great equlizer in this game, to bad you have to wait
untill you start laping the feild before it comes into play (only then it is
tough, and just because it is hard to thread your way through a bunch of
cars going a 20 to 50 mph slower then you are) Great game, great AI huh.

Denny M

   The same thing goes for N2, especially on the short tracks!  I also
find that Atlanta is hard to run with damage because you are driving
so close to the other cars on those long corners. (1 tap and you're in
the wall!).  With the BGN Expansion pack, I've been finding IRP sort
of tricky, (a little like Darlington with the narrow groove in the
corners).  There is quite a bit of race track, but so little you can
go race well on!

Later,
J0ohn
0

True.  What's more the "X" key is there so if you DO feel that the AI
was totally to blame for an accident you can tap X twice to repair and
go on, while re-activating damage so you are still vulnerable for
futuer incidents.  Of course, the temptation is to use the X key too
much, and MS must have thought of that because I noticed that if
damage generates a push condition, pressing X to repair does NOT fix
the push condition!

With damage on..absolutely.  I partially blame the limited
wheel-vision, though.  Its hard to tell with head-panning how close
you are to wall exiting turns because it doesn't look out to the apex
properly, yet with head panning off it still doesn't show enough width
to help you precisely place the front wheels.  Its more of a 'feel'
that you develop...almost a sixth sense.

Randy
Randy Magruder
Contributing Reviewer
Digital Sportspage
http://www.digitalsports.com

Randy
Randy Magruder
Contributing Reviewer
Digital Sportspage
http://www.digitalsports.com

Not quite sure what you mean by this but.............
Are you saying for instance that on Pro settings with no aids on and
Damage ON you always qualify pole? because thats the only way this
statement makes ant sense.
Even then if say at Australia in Pro +Damage on you are so fast as to not
only qualify Pole but also you say you Lap the field?

 >(only then it is

And now that you qualified with Pro settings + damage on Pole your saying
your lapping the field?
And find their 20 to 50 mph slower than you???
Wow Dude your some kind of speed demon is all I can say.
Sincerely Wondering, Mike

If you are in pro or immediate with the cars skill set at 999 in the
system.ini, they will not be 20-50mph slower than yourself.
Dave Fisher

At Mis, Fontana I can always qualify on the pole in the pro mode the and
then never see another car untill I come around to start lapping the feild.
Oh yea I forgot to this is with the sample setups supplied with the game,
just some minor tweaks of the steering.

Denny M

P.S. I have patched the game with build 90.

Like I said Denny you must be pretty quick ;-)
When I race at Fontana and if I do a low 30 or high 29 sec. lap I can get
pole.
But in Qualify list I see 6 had 30.- sec laps
                                  4 had 31 sec+ laps
                                  1 at 32 sec
and poor Max Pappis did a 40
So even if I do well and this is Pro "with " Damage on right?
I dont lap the field. I agree with you though as it has been said before
Ovals are not too hot in CPR.
Perhaps you would like a road course. Or in the FAQ it also tells you how
to increase the AIs abilities.

Mike