rec.autos.simulators

Some have gotten used to in-car and some to F10 view.. there's no
advantage gained. End of discussion. :)

--
Greger Huttu

Hmm, I was just reading about an aussie karting that has gone to
europe to race in the world championships... seems they use a
different method of qualification... 2 laps only per driver...

And what's with this whole superpole idea in superbikes... that sounds
alot like hotlapping too...

:)

Ian

Not at all.  You want full fair "play" in your terms, you'd run a league
with all the same marquee and with a standard setup with no alterations
allowed,***pit view/f10 view only, etc.   Bah.

Its not that much of a different "baseline".  There are advantages and
disadvantages to both views.  And there are other more important factors
that play into someone being fast, competitive, etc. than view.

Yeah, and we aren't talking about foot versus roller blade racing.  Quit
exaggerating the whole topic.

And you've yet to come up with a compelling reason that there is any benefit
or special and utterly devastatingly [to exaggerate the whole topic]
advantage to using the F10 view to the***pit view.

And oh, btw, when talking about online racing or hotlapping....such things
as bandwidth, latency, processor speeds, harddrive speeds, video cards, etc.
have a much far ranging effect on the apple-to-apple comparison than the
"view" someone chooses to use.   Might as well, if you are going to demand
everyone race in the same view, start demanding everyone have exactly the
same system, same connections, etc.

I hear Ferrari have lodged a protest against Fretzen's win at Monza; seems
Jordan's developed an F10-view.  Hill says it's TOO MUCH, and is quitting -
again.

:-)

Steve B.

What you refer to is just another form of "checkbook racing",
something that has been a part of motorsports for ages.
Having multiple distinct views of the world, as far as I know,
has never been a part of motorsports.  I see nothing
wrong with objecting to the F10 view on those grounds.
Whether or not one can object to it on the grounds of
a perceived advantage I have yet to be convinced of
one way or the other.

As an experiment I think I will go to the extreme and run
some races in what I consider to be the most arcade
view of them all - the Blimp view.  Having mastered the
Speedvision Grand Prix:

http://irace.speedvision.com/fun&game/streetrace/streetrace.cfm

I think I should go quite fast :-)

 - George

 I don't think Mika is the best driver in the world, but he has superior
equipment and the skills to exploit it, i think he is faster than his
teamie, but i'm not even sure about that (team orders maybe), so i guess
what i am trying to say is , do whatever you can do with the tools your
given to be the fastest YOU can be, if you are focused on others then you
are neglecting your own program. I drive in-car as a preference, even if
there was evidence of f10 being faster i would still drive in the car, this
is an Opinion, in general not a reply or rebuttle to any previous post.
Happy Motoring !!
Jeff Eiland  (Viman)

talking about that we are having a LAN GPL day on Oct 2nd. We will be
having some qualifying sessions where it is one flying lap each person,
whilst the rest watch. A bit like Superpole or the Top Ten shootout at
Bathurst. Should make for some interesting racing I reckon.

Norbury Technologies

:-) (it;s a joke Pickard.) :-)

--
Mark Jeangerard
www.soundchaserweb.com
New Mexico USA

To me any driving using an aerial view is a bit like playing DOOM and the
like with full map - it's just too easy and there is no challenge with the
learning curve.  I believe that for learning the track, the best way is to
follow a computer car for a few laps.  That way you will know the best line
and if you start from the back of the field, can slowly increase your speed
as you get the hang of the track and handling of your car.  Missing out on
this learning part to me is missing out a lot on playing the game.  Anyway
there are usually some assistance built in games for track learning with
skid marks, flag markers and in the case of GP2 even outlining of the best
line!

I guess those who refuse to use the f10 view can suggest that they race only
with those not using f10.

My two bits worth.   And sincere apologies if this is repetitive as I missed
out on a lot of this thread.

Cheers.

Don't be silly. Nowhere has anyone ever suggested that the natural
variations that occur in the real word shouldn't be present in a
hard-core sim. Quite the reverse if anything. Natrual real-life
variables are not even the discussion here. What this whole debate is
about is the useage of variablies that are completly unnatrual.

Not only do people not complain about natrual variations, they usualy
want more and better.

Also, no one is suggesting multi-views not be included in the program.
All that's being asked for is for a way to tell how someone you're
driving against is driving. Unless your ashamed about the way you're
driving then why complan so much at the mere suggestion that others be
aware of your driving method ? What on earth can be the objection here
?

As well there's the suggestion that it'd be good if it were possiable
to restrict drivers to a certain view, either one, for some leagues or
races if that's what some prefer. You suggest you don't want othes to
impose their opinions on you. Well then you ought to respect that some
have the opinion that such would be good - and likewise don't want to
be restrited by your opinion on them. If you don't like this then you
could always find another race to better suit you. No doubt there'd be
enough to choose from.

There are other factors to be sure. Maybe some are indeed quite
weighty as you suggest. But I'd have to say, that given that a very
great part of the feedback from a computer sim is based on visusal
perception, I'd think one would have to conceed that a significatly
different view would, or at the very least could, be a weighty factor
also.

This was a very simple comparasion - the point of which is to
illistrate the fact that overall results can be independant from
specific sub-methods. I doubt very much that any fair minded person
would try to read into it anything other than that.

An advantage does not need to be " utterly devastatingly " to be
unfair. The concerns being expressed here are valid IMHO. Many resons
have been tabled here. They may not be complelling to you but that
doesn't mean they lack credability.

Now you are pretending to be an expert who knows exactly what the
comparative benifits and otherwise are. Other more informed people
here have not claimed this. Nothing you've presented here would have
me lend you that regard.

These things may have an effect to be sure. I think amougst them,
perhaps greater perhaps lesser, ought to be the view perception one
uses. As said above - view perception is a rather big fundamental
aspect of the entire sim expierience and to say it makes no difference
is a big call imo.

Cheers

Phillip McNelley