rec.autos.simulators

N4 and GeForce3 - no frame rate increase? wtf?

Stubb

N4 and GeForce3 - no frame rate increase? wtf?

by Stubb » Tue, 08 May 2001 12:52:05

I went from a GeForce2 GTS 32mb to a new GF3 and my frame rate at 16x12
didn't improve at all? Whats up with that? I see all these online
reviews of the GF3 and think 'sweet, now I can have 16x12 N4 at 60fps or
so' but this is not at all the case. The main reason I bought this card
was so I could run my favorite game (mainly N4) at high res at high
frame rates. I maybe have gained 1 or 2 fps at best with full detail in
N4. WTF?

Btw, Abit BF6, PIII900, 256mb,Live, GF3

Tom Pabs

N4 and GeForce3 - no frame rate increase? wtf?

by Tom Pabs » Tue, 08 May 2001 13:12:25

Stubby....

There's far more to getting good FPS in N4 than the hardware.....that's only
"the starting point."

Your PIII 900 CPU is probably hurting you a little bit.....but for the most
part your hardware is capable of 60 to 80 FPS (maybe more once your GF3 card
can stretch its legs with the right drivers and settings).  I get anywhere
from 50's to 90's FPS......using the settings below....only running a GF2
ULTRA (which won't be much different than a GF3....not in N4 they'll be
almost indistinguishable...since they both have the same DDR memory and run
at the same clock speeds).  When you get your FPS in the 60's to 70's or
better.....you should try running the FSAA that is a totally new "graphics
engine" on the GF3.....see what "hit" you take to FPS....which should be
minimal with the GF3's FSAA architecture/methodology.

I should point out that I have posted the settings below here on RAS several
times....and almost everyone (with similar equipment to mine) gets the same
results as I do.  Follow them closely.....all of them.

Wishing you success.....

Tom Pabst
Pabst-Racing.com

PS:  What GF3 card did you buy and how much?

******GeForce 2 (MX, GTS, ULTRA) Tweaks and Settings for N4******

Desktop Color:  Set to 16-bit color for N4 and all games.

DirectX: Make sure you are using a DX 8.0 compatible driver (Nvidia Ref
drivers versions 7.0 or higher)

For N4:  Run OpenGL (not D3D) in "XXXX"x16 (you must use a screen res
compatible with your CPU speed and ram).

Monitor:  Make sure you have downloaded the latest drivers for your
monitor...DO NOT USE "Plug and Play" Monitor drivers!  Set your refresh rate
at the highest setting you are allowed for your monitor at the specific
screen res you want to run N4 at.

Advanced Settings Tab For OpenGL:
           In The Scroll Down Box:
                 Enable Buffer Region Extension (checked)
                Allow the dual planes extension to us local video memory
(checked)
                Use fast linear-mipmap-linear filtering (checked)
                ****all others are unchecked****

            Default Color Depth for Textures:  Always Use 16 bpp
            Buffer Flipping Mode:  Use page flip
            Vertical sync: Always off
            Full Scene Antialiasing Method: Always off

            Use up to [62] MB of system memory for textures in PCI mode

Mother Board BIOS Settings:
            Video BIOS Shadow = "Disabled"
            Video BIOS Cache = "Disabled"
            Palette Snoop = "Disabled"
            AGP Turbo (or x4) = "Enabled" (if your mobo supports
it....disabled or 2x or 1x if it does not)
            PnP Aware OS = "Yes"
            AGP Aperture Size = 128 mb (only if you have 128 mb or
more...which you should)
            Resources Controlled by = "Auto"
            Assign IRQ to VGA = "Yes"

Larr

N4 and GeForce3 - no frame rate increase? wtf?

by Larr » Wed, 09 May 2001 00:21:07

This is what I'd expect...

From what I've been able to gather, unless the game is optimized for Directx
8, the GF3 will show little improvement over a Pro/Ultra.

I'm pulling up to 75fps at 1280xwhatever with my GeForce Pro, and that's
good enough for me :)

Also, it takes a powerfull processor to feed a GeForce Pro/Ultra/3.  I
noticed a pretty good increase with the same card when I went from a 800Mhz
Athlon to a 1.2Ghz DDR Athlon.

-Larry


Incubu

N4 and GeForce3 - no frame rate increase? wtf?

by Incubu » Wed, 09 May 2001 02:00:44

Go to www.tomshardware.com

Thats what they found too.


pw

N4 and GeForce3 - no frame rate increase? wtf?

by pw » Wed, 09 May 2001 03:17:48

So, even though N4 requires DirectX 8.0+ (doesn't it?), it isn't
optimized for it?

-pw



>> I went from a GeForce2 GTS 32mb to a new GF3 and my frame rate at 16x12
>> didn't improve at all? Whats up with that? I see all these online
>> reviews of the GF3 and think 'sweet, now I can have 16x12 N4 at 60fps or
>> so' but this is not at all the case. The main reason I bought this card
>> was so I could run my favorite game (mainly N4) at high res at high
>> frame rates. I maybe have gained 1 or 2 fps at best with full detail in
>> N4. WTF?

>> Btw, Abit BF6, PIII900, 256mb,Live, GF3

Yoshi Minam

N4 and GeForce3 - no frame rate increase? wtf?

by Yoshi Minam » Wed, 09 May 2001 05:42:02


 Microsoft recommends (forces?) to include newest DirectX, optimized for or
not is not matter.

Y. Minami

Tom Pabs

N4 and GeForce3 - no frame rate increase? wtf?

by Tom Pabs » Wed, 09 May 2001 08:23:12

I had the exact same experience Larry....jumping from the same...to the
same....cpu wise.  I am buying a GF-3 for "experimental" reasons only (and
bumping up to a 1.333 AMD Athy....oc'ing to 1.6 gig and PC2100 SDRAM - CAS 2
setting.... RAM...tons of it)....not because its needed in N4 for FPS.
however.  Although, I will be interested to see if the GF-3 Quincunux (spl?)
FSAA is a substantial improvement on the OpenGL "jaggies".....in N4.  I run
1600 res......same FPS....you might try that res....the "jaggies" are
reduced to insignificant levels....at that res.....with very strong FPS
figures still.  Give it a try!  (However, I just realized with my 21"
monitor....I may be more prone to noticing the "jaggies" than I would on a
good 19"????).

Tom

Dave Henri

N4 and GeForce3 - no frame rate increase? wtf?

by Dave Henri » Wed, 09 May 2001 10:22:28

  by optimized they are talking about the new features in DX8 that, at this
time, only the Geforce3 can use.  So papyrus made their program DX8
compliant but did not address many of the new features of DX8 since at the
time of N4's release, NO CARD was capable of displaying them.  The only real
new feature that N4 uses is transform and lighting via hardware.  So N4
required DX8 because there are still many items only available with that
build, but the fancy vertex shading and per pixel programing  they did not
use.  You most likely won't see very many programs at all that can take
advantage of the new dx8 features until Christmas at the soonest.
  So to wrap up.  N4 requires DX8 but it is not coded to benefit from the
newest feature sets in DX8 because at this time, there is only ONE very
EXPENSIVE card that can make use of those features.
(btw...the first framerate test I saw of a Geforce3 with an alpha build of a
program that used all the fancy graphics...
28fps....of course the Geforce 2 bogged down to under 10 but thats what we
will see...new programs that overwhelm the first generation Geforce3 cards)
dave henrie

> >Go to www.tomshardware.com

> >Thats what they found too.

> So, even though N4 requires DirectX 8.0+ (doesn't it?), it isn't
> optimized for it?

> -pw



> >> I went from a GeForce2 GTS 32mb to a new GF3 and my frame rate at 16x12
> >> didn't improve at all? Whats up with that? I see all these online
> >> reviews of the GF3 and think 'sweet, now I can have 16x12 N4 at 60fps
or
> >> so' but this is not at all the case. The main reason I bought this card
> >> was so I could run my favorite game (mainly N4) at high res at high
> >> frame rates. I maybe have gained 1 or 2 fps at best with full detail in
> >> N4. WTF?

> >> Btw, Abit BF6, PIII900, 256mb,Live, GF3

Tim Elhaj

N4 and GeForce3 - no frame rate increase? wtf?

by Tim Elhaj » Wed, 09 May 2001 14:17:34


> So N4 required DX8

Not sure if required is the right word. You can skip the DX8 install and the
game works fine. I have yet to upgrade to DX8 (still at DX7) and it runs
fine for me.

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