rec.autos.simulators

I agree with you.  These days game should have a solid 30 FPS easily with a
3dfx card.  So far I am pretty happy with CPR in most areas but the
framerate in my opinion is terrible.  It practically ruins the game from a
simulator stand point. I would like to drive with the***pit on but it
kills the framerate by at 10 to 12 FPS. This is absolutely terrible!!!!
What good is a great physical driving model when the framerate keeps you
from obtaining the feeling of speed and control that a solid 30 FPS would
deliver?  I don't care about a great driving engine if I can't control it
accurately due to a choppy 12 to 15 FPS.  It is very difficult to make quick
and precise steering movements when the frame rate drops below 20.  What
really scares me is when the full game arrives and you start out in the
middle of a 33 card field, the framerate is going to plummet to like 5 FPS
at the start of any race or when you are in the middle of a large pack of
cars on an oval.

How can they let this game be released without addressing this problem?
Microsoft just sucks and I am so tired of having no choice because of there
Nazi type politics. If MS releases a Glide patch for this game within in the
first 6 months of its release I will have much renewed respect for Microsoft
but I will not be holding my breath.....

If this game suffers badly with the FPS then it going back to the shelve I
found it on.  I will not accept shitty performance when the standard is 30
FPS now......software developers get with the program....the 3dfx program
that is.

Perhaps the Voodoo cards, better yet, 2 of them in synch, will get this game
running at an acceptable level and we can start having fun and stop wasting
time complaining about things that should have been addressed before the
games release.....

Oh and how about trying to configure you T2 with WIN95...what kind of
bullshit is this?  How can a OS be so dumb...I mean you can't even make a
program be able to set up and calibrate a simple controller without having
to go through some major bullshit and newsgroup turn hunts to solve the
problem...but that is another story.

Later

Kas

I agreed with everything I snipped BTW.

But you do bring up an interesting point. With 3DFX programs can easily
be written for 30fps. With *FAR* superior graphics. Check Jetfighter3 and
Flying Corps for a standard. JF3 is DOS and FC is Direct3D, but they make
Direct3D calls which only a few cards can support (namely a 3DFX).With
this break through in technology there really is no reason for superior
graphics & performance on a P5-166 (or even P5-133) with 3DFX. Finally
the lower end machines can get in on the action. This is the first time
I can remember this being true. My fear is that people who are clueless
will think it is appropriate to write crappy Direct3D programs with
very poor framerate. If that is what every one tries to push, then I am out
of the Computer *** consumer market. It is really as simple as that.
I made quite a stink on the flightsim newsgroup about this :-)  These
mfrs. really have to start getting their collective ***together.

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Joe

Gee, I'm glad I have both of them 8^)

l8er
ronny

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          |\      _,,,---,,_        I want to die like my Grandfather,
   ZZZzz /,`.-'`'    -.  ;-;;,_              in his sleep.
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       '---''(_/--'  `-'\_)            screaming their heads off!

So far CPR has been a disappointment for me mostly due to slow FPS on my
P166 Monster3Dfx 32meg RAM system, and crappy control with my T-2 wheel.

Seems like the controls give us 2 options, either turn down the sensitivity
to eliminate the twitchy weaving at highspeeds, making it hard to have
enough wheellock to make the tight corners, or do the opposite and suffer
unstable handling on the straights.

Really, as a big CART fan, I hope CPR doesn't turn into another X-Car which
was promptly returned when the significant control problems were found to be
impossible to resolve and no patches were forthcoming.

I *want* to like (and thus possibly purchase) CPR, but these two problems
are preventing me from enjoying the demo much. hope they get them sorted out
before the final.

Cheers.

--John (who mostly plays GP2, ICR2 and Nascar2+TPTCC Patch)

--==Note: my real e-mail address is below. Delete the asterisks.==--

  Seattle, Washington USA.    |    http://www.***tex.com/~jsilva

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iF-22? Oh my... I guess you are a flightsim expert or something. iF-22
as a standard for 3d implementation! Hahaha... Oh stop already!

Maybe. We are discussing 3DFX implementation. Not simulation
difficulty. Are you sure you are keeping up?

I meant inferior graphics not superior. Sorry.

Nope I just hope they would *PROPERLY* use what is currently available
today. i.e. Do not take adequate equipment and relegate to dog-***performance
and graphics as in CPR.

Yep.. Ubisoft F1 is how a 3D racing simulator ought to be done. You see
there is no comparison to CPR and the Ubisoft F1 demo. And if you think
the graphics of UBI F1 are worse than CPR we can stop this discussion
right here.

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F/X YODA VOICE /OFF   <g>

The computer industry like any other follows the path of least
resistence. 3DFX is the most popular card, and has been chosen en
masse by the most demanding users. Companies can satisfy these users,
and well, by doing direct 3dfx API ports such as Glide. At the same
time they make life easier on themselves in two ways: a DRAMATIC
reduction in 3D programming time and costs as compared to D3D
implementation, and secondly the oppurtunity to produce high end
products that will satisfy even the most demanding customers (not to
mention reviewers). A few Rendition users are pissed (their horse lost
the race) but it's a small minority - compared to the other wins it's
obvious which way the smart software companies are going, and that's
direct 3dfx ports (no pun intended). Hell, even EA's figured it out!

Joe

Agreed again! And until a "Direct 3d" title performs anywhere close to
what I can achieve from a Rendition, Glide, ect... it looks like I
will be saving a lot of money up in software in the near future since
I'm hearing how everything is heading towards windoze and this form of
acceleration.

Yes, that's the "Hardware Acceleration" via your video card which
supports it.

There's some things you can do to help this situation such as setting
your virtual memory (Julian posted on this), and also what I have
found no matter what game I am going to run under W95 (Direct 3d,
Rendition, Glide, ect...) is to shut everything down except Explorer -
{Hit Ctrl/Alt/Del and see what all is running in the background.

I'm not from MS obviously ;), but I can tell you that my 6meg Pure 3d
Voodoo doesn't do much in the way of curing these shortcomings of
"Direct 3d" even vs.s my Intergraph I3d (Rendition), however, games
supporting Glide, OpenGL, and Rendition are absolutely awesome on
these cards. IMHO, Microsoft should not have even attempted a "Racing
Sim" of this nature without first taking a good look at its beloved
Direct 3d and doing some major rewrites to actually allow TRUE
acceleration as I experience on just about every other native
platform.

Ron L.

(Please remove the extra letter(s) to respond)

Home of the SSC http://www3.pgh.net/~lazer/    
For Nascar2 & Winston Cup Fans!

 change anytime soon either. Just as other companies are *struggling*
to match current 3dx performance, 3dfx comes out with the Voodoo2 that will
 blow everything away for another year, just like 3dfx did all last year.

I challenge your facts on this one.  3DFX is indeed the market leader right now
 but by no means are they *THE* standard.  The Rendition 2x00 series is out and
 outperforms the 3DFX in Direct3D in real-world tests, and the Redline drivers
 are to Rendition what Glide is to 3DFX.  There is also the PowerVR and other
 stuff coming down the road. Many of the manufacturers that sell a 3DFX also
 sell other 3D boards, often Rendition, such as Diamond which sells the Stealth
 II Rendition v2100 board and the Monster 3D 3DFX board.  If 3DFX was "THE"
 standard, why would Diamond spend any money selling a competing 3D board?  The
 same is true of Hercules, which will be introducing the Thriller 3D with the
 v2200 in it. Competition is good and by no means has the 3DFX chipset won the
 war.

As far as the Voodoo 2, its out there aways, isn't it?  Its not out now, and
 when it DOES come out its going to cost more than the less expensive Rendition
 boards, so you'll pay top dollar for your performance increases.  I think
 we'll continue to see healthy competition between 3D vendors, especially now
 that Rendition have finally responded to the 3DFX success with the new
 versions of the Rendition chip.  

I do wish that D3D would be the answer for unifying this from a developer
 standpoint, but I also recognize that its not there yet, and I would hope that
 developers like TRI are allowed to pursue non D3D acceleration to get optimal
 performance.

Randy
Randy Magruder
Staff Writer
Digital Sportspage
http://www.digitalsports.com/

Thanks for the good words about the webpage. I have been working *** it.
I just have one more thing to say about CART racing. Just wait until you can
race up to 8 people on the *** zone. I have raced with 5 people and it
was a blast. The other night we raced at Milwaukee and all of us qualified
within about .2 seconds of each other! It was a rush to watch the times come
up on the Qualifying board after I ran my two laps. The  race was a dice the
whole way!

SNIP

Again, ALL of which are still struggling to match 3dfx's year-old
technology. By the time this stuff is here Voodoo2 will be here as
well, kicking their ass all over the place.

Joe

Funny coincidence, but yesterday I was setting up an IBM with NT, and
today a G2k with Win95... and on both I found the same screensaver- a
3D marquee saying "OpenGL" flipping madly over the place. What is this
about?! It is inconcievable than MS is adding that to everyone's
system... so why was it on two disparite systems?

Maybe there is a secret society undermining the Microsoft Monopoly and
secretly implanting OpenGl on unsuspecting manufacturers ???

Just a though =)

Scott B. Husted