rec.autos.simulators

by **na_bike** » Mon, 22 Oct 2001 16:16:18

>I currently have XP and 98 loaded on a dual boot system and the XP
>performance is noticeably slower than 98, It's probably hardware related as
>I have yet to find compatible drivers for my SB live, V5 or LWFF. GPL is
>unplayable, N4 and F12001 are both slower in XP than 98.

>If /when the hardware compatibility's are straightened out XP might be the
>way to go but I would suggest a little research to anyone thinking about the
>upgrade.

>P3 800
>Abit BF6
>256 RAM
>V5 5500 PCI
>SB live value
>LWFF USB

>DN

With the Voodoo driver development screeching to a dead halt I'm not
surprised, 3dfx being dead and all.

I had troubles with SBLive + GPL too, the drivers that comes built-in
sucks bigtime. There are better though, some that actually works:

http://www.racesimcentral.net/

by **Iain Mackenzi** » Mon, 22 Oct 2001 16:14:51

Read the posts properly first. The argument is not about whether one OS
gives 102fps and the other gives 100fps.

Iain

> On Sat, 20 Oct 2001 18:00:18 +0100, "Iain Mackenzie"

> >Dave

> >I didn't say anything about radically improving ***, or being in any
way
> >'an accelerator'. What I said was that it was not a backward step in
***
> >terms as others here have suggested. I get marginally better performance
in
> >XP than 98 or ME,

> That's funny, because I read a test report and XP is slower for ***
> in every benchmark (games) except one. Who am I to believe, your
> subjective comments or the objective test report?

by **Iain Mackenzi** » Mon, 22 Oct 2001 16:22:27

Dino

Don't know why you can't find any 'compatible' drivers for your SBLive. The
ones OOTB were absolutely fine for me, then MS did an upgrade available on
'Windows Upgrade', and there are very good leaked Creative drivers and LW3
available on the web.

GPL runs perfectly with me.

Iain

> I currently have XP and 98 loaded on a dual boot system and the XP
> performance is noticeably slower than 98, It's probably hardware related
as
> I have yet to find compatible drivers for my SB live, V5 or LWFF. GPL is
> unplayable, N4 and F12001 are both slower in XP than 98.

> If /when the hardware compatibility's are straightened out XP might be the
> way to go but I would suggest a little research to anyone thinking about
the
> upgrade.

> P3 800
> Abit BF6
> 256 RAM
> V5 5500 PCI
> SB live value
> LWFF USB

> DN

> > Sorry Dave, I totally disagree. After extensively using every version
of
> Mr
> > Gates' Windows operating system since 3.1, I would say that XP is a
major
> > leap forward, and worth every pound of the 79 you have to pay!
> > Iain

> > > Even if it IS faster...the amount you gain will be SMALL, TINY,
> LITTLE.
> > > Take the money you would have to spend on XP and get a faster chip.
The
> > > performance difference between "upgrading" to XP vs buying a faster
cpu
> is
> > > not even close. Don't bother with XP unless you have a very
specific
> > NEED
> > > that is meets.(for example improved home networking) otherwise...your
> > > spending lots of money for a very small gain.

> > > dave henrie

> > > "Destroy" <
> > > > >The nvidia 2000/XP drivers is top notch.

> > > > But still slower in XP than win98. Perhaps all this poor frame rate
is
> > > > due to poor XP video driver optimization but until it gets proven
> better
> > > > for ***, I would recommend shying away from XP. It may be stable
> but
> > > > its slower the majority of the time.

> > > > Here is another article btw.
> > > > http://www.racesimcentral.net/

by **na_bike** » Tue, 23 Oct 2001 01:13:37

On Sun, 21 Oct 2001 07:53:14 +1000, "Damien Smith"

>> The gain isn't performance; it's stability, security and
>> expandability.

>Hmm...well I'd say games are slightly more unstable than under win9x - I'll
>give XP at least 12 months before I consider it.

You can of course do what you want, but I haven't actually seen
something that warrants such a blanket statement.

On the other hand it's with my setup, which seems pretty well off
driver-wise, ATM, nor do I play every game on the planet. Those with
other hardware with poorer drivers might of course have more
difficulty than me.

by **Dave Henri** » Tue, 23 Oct 2001 02:46:58

Ok so let me clarify my posisiton.
I am reacting to what others call 'upgrading' to XP. When I think of
upgrading I think of improved performance. When I think of improved
performance, little small gains don't impress me. I try and look for any
item that would give me the biggest increase per dollar spent.
XP probably is a better system. But there are usually better places to
spend money to improve performance. Below are my 'general' guidelines for
upgrading.
1) CPU
2) Video Card
3) More Memory(stop at 512 if you use Win98x or ME)
4) Improved subsystems(better soundcards, ata 100 hard drives, modem or
broadband connection improvements etc)
5) CPU (by this time you probably can begin the cycle again.)

I wouldn't even list an OS as a performance upgrade. If somebody came to
me and asked what they could do to improve their system, I would investigate
their present specs and how they use it and then make recomendations. But I
can't think of any reason to cut back on money possibly going to CPU
upgrades by purchasing a new OS. I'm figuring we can't all spend unlimited
amounts so I guess I should have made that clear as well. With only a
certain amount of money to spend, $90 or $199 (US) for an OS cuts in half
what you could spend on the absolute TOP cpu or Mega video card. It just
isn't worth it to me UNLESS you find it meets a very specific need.
For example, if I have to buy a Ge Force 2 MX instead of an Ultra or GF3
because I spent extra money on XP, then I choked my system. If I have to
settle for a PIII 800 when the extra money NOT spent on XP could get me a P4
1.8ghz, then I've once again held back my system. And no OS is gonna make
up for big jumps or lack there-of in cpu horsepower.
If you have a business you run with your *** system, if you have
networking issues, if you have unlimited $$ to spend, then XP surely is a
better OS. But if you are trying to squeeze the most performance out of a
system without huge amounts of money, then the OS purchase is WASTED money.
Get the rest of your system upgraded, sorted, and broken in and let the
folks who can't wait beta test XP and all it's component issues.
dave henrie

by **Destro** » Tue, 23 Oct 2001 03:04:49

Yes, poor frame rate.

Look again ace.
http://www.rivastation.com/r8500_1_e.htm

Face the facts not what you think.

by **George Lewi** » Tue, 23 Oct 2001 05:56:58

I've been using XP for quite some time now and I haven't seen a single
BSOD (blue screen of death) from it yet.

I'm using the SB Live and the drivers are just fine. No problems with
any sound. The only issue I have with XP is after applying ECDC5
5.02b update the system wants to restart instead of shut down.

For games that don't run in XP or NT, right click on the icon, choose
properties and click on the compatibility tab. You can choose to run
the program in Win95, Win98/ME, NT or W2K mode. I've found that Win95
or Win98 modes work just fine.

Also, my GF2 Ultra is installed by default with some drivers that
aren't very good IMHO. I replaced them with detonator drivers and all
was well.

>I run N4 with no difficulties. No sound card manfacture has XT drivers
>ready so getting a soundblaster product to work right is a challenge and
>untill the drivers get released, game playing with sound is a compromise.
>Example: N4 I have working and running great except for sound. No spotter
>and sometimes the sound just quits. I can escape and come back and the
>sound returns. I am using a SB Auidogy X-gamer using Win2000 drivers.

>I am using an OEM install (that I did myself) using XP pro. I have about 30
>hours getting the OS to run with errors or blue screen of death. Now
>everything is fine, just waiting for driver releases from HP and Creative.
>N4 runs with better frame rates (Gforce3 w/ 21.83) and 3dmarks improved by
>500 over 98SE.

>OEM software has no free MS support. The dealer selling me the software did
>not know that. He DOES KNOW!

>If you have patience, want to save money, the OEM is okay. The retail
>version may offer better documentation but the boxed version is going to
>cost you 50 buck more but you get MS support.

>Hope this helps

>Rush, out

>> does anyone have experience of running f12001 (or other popular games)
>under
>> win xp? thinking of upgrading.

>> cheers naim

by **George Lewi** » Tue, 23 Oct 2001 05:57:34

I've noticed that NFS Porsche runs slower in XP but N4 runs just as
fast...

On Fri, 19 Oct 2001 00:14:54 GMT, Destroy

>Most games run a fair bit slower in XP so far. I suggest waiting and
>watching with trusty old 98se

>>does anyone have experience of running f12001 (or other popular games) under
>>win xp? thinking of upgrading.

>>cheers naim

by **George Lewi** » Tue, 23 Oct 2001 05:58:33

Same here... I could tell a difference in NFS Porsche but other than
that, XP was just as fast.

On Fri, 19 Oct 2001 19:50:00 +0100, "Iain Mackenzie"

>As has been posted on many ngs, forget the web reviews and believe what real
>players are telling you.
>also, I am not the only one. I think if you follow the xp ngs, you'll find a
>lot of happy (***) bunnies.
>Iain

>> >Most games run faster on XP for me, and my 3D 2001 benchmark went up as
>well
>> >cf 98SE.
>> >Iain

>> Not true. Well then you are the only one. None of the recent sites that
>> benchmarked the 8500 show XP running games well. Currently, it runs most
>> games alot worse actually.
>> http://www.racesimcentral.net/
>> http://www.racesimcentral.net/

by **George Lewi** » Tue, 23 Oct 2001 05:59:43

I'm getting the same speeds out of XP as I did out of ME. Only
difference for me is that I'm not locking up my system 10 times a day
with XP...

On Sat, 20 Oct 2001 01:59:19 GMT, Destroy

>>The nvidia 2000/XP drivers is top notch.

>But still slower in XP than win98. Perhaps all this poor frame rate is
>due to poor XP video driver optimization but until it gets proven better
>for ***, I would recommend shying away from XP. It may be stable but
>its slower the majority of the time.

>Here is another article btw.
>http://www.racesimcentral.net/

by **George Lewi** » Tue, 23 Oct 2001 06:00:47

Personally, I recommend a P4 system with lots of RAM for XP...

by **George Lewi** » Tue, 23 Oct 2001 06:03:14

I think we're getting somewhere now...

I'm running on a P4 1.7 GHz. ME itself runs FAST on it. XP is not too
shabby but not blazing. Actual gameplay is the same for me with
either OS, at least IMHO. I'm not running benchmarks, but I don't
notice any differences.

I've noticed that XP on a P3 system is slower overall.

>I currently have XP and 98 loaded on a dual boot system and the XP
>performance is noticeably slower than 98, It's probably hardware related as
>I have yet to find compatible drivers for my SB live, V5 or LWFF. GPL is
>unplayable, N4 and F12001 are both slower in XP than 98.

>If /when the hardware compatibility's are straightened out XP might be the
>way to go but I would suggest a little research to anyone thinking about the
>upgrade.

>P3 800
>Abit BF6
>256 RAM
>V5 5500 PCI
>SB live value
>LWFF USB

>DN

>> Sorry Dave, I totally disagree. After extensively using every version of
>Mr
>> Gates' Windows operating system since 3.1, I would say that XP is a major
>> leap forward, and worth every pound of the 79 you have to pay!
>> Iain

>> > Even if it IS faster...the amount you gain will be SMALL, TINY,
>LITTLE.
>> > Take the money you would have to spend on XP and get a faster chip. The
>> > performance difference between "upgrading" to XP vs buying a faster cpu
>is
>> > not even close. Don't bother with XP unless you have a very specific
>> NEED
>> > that is meets.(for example improved home networking) otherwise...your
>> > spending lots of money for a very small gain.

>> > dave henrie

>> > "Destroy" <
>> > > >The nvidia 2000/XP drivers is top notch.

>> > > But still slower in XP than win98. Perhaps all this poor frame rate is
>> > > due to poor XP video driver optimization but until it gets proven
>better
>> > > for ***, I would recommend shying away from XP. It may be stable
>but
>> > > its slower the majority of the time.

>> > > Here is another article btw.
>> > > http://www.racesimcentral.net/

by **George Lewi** » Tue, 23 Oct 2001 06:06:24

Agreed! If you're gonna run XP, you've probably kissed DOS games
goodbye a looong time ago.

I like the stability of NT with the ability to run non-NT programs.
And let's face it - DOS is dead or attempting to be killed by MS. XP
is the way of the future. It may take some time to get all the
drivers up to speed. We went through this with W2K, ME, and Win98...

>On Sat, 20 Oct 2001 01:59:19 GMT, Destroy

>>>The nvidia 2000/XP drivers is top notch.

>>But still slower in XP than win98.

>Aw, come ON! Read the numbers.

>>Perhaps all this poor frame rate is
>>due to poor XP video driver optimization but until it gets proven better
>>for ***, I would recommend shying away from XP. It may be stable but
>>its slower the majority of the time.

>Even IF it were 10% slower it would still be worth it. If XP is to be
>shyed away from, you should be running like the wind from 9x.

>>Here is another article btw.
>>http://www.racesimcentral.net/

>Great "source". Some whatshisface just saying "games is 5-10% slower".
>Well, what's the point in arguing, I just have to accept defeat at
>once! Then why isn't the benchmarks 5-10% slower?

>I'll give him something, though. If you're planning on playing DOS
>games it may not be the best choice. Other than that, you're golden.

>All In My Very Humble Opinion, of course. :->

by **Dino** » Tue, 23 Oct 2001 06:16:39

I have the leaked Creative drivers installed but still get a strange
digitized sound in GPL at times that also affects the FF, exiting to pit
seems to straighten it out for awhile. Would be interested to know if any
others have had the XP-SBL-GPL problem that can guide me to a fix.

DN

> Dino

> Don't know why you can't find any 'compatible' drivers for your SBLive.
The
> ones OOTB were absolutely fine for me, then MS did an upgrade available on
> 'Windows Upgrade', and there are very good leaked Creative drivers and LW3
> available on the web.

> GPL runs perfectly with me.

> Iain

> > I currently have XP and 98 loaded on a dual boot system and the XP
> > performance is noticeably slower than 98, It's probably hardware related
> as
> > I have yet to find compatible drivers for my SB live, V5 or LWFF. GPL is
> > unplayable, N4 and F12001 are both slower in XP than 98.

> > If /when the hardware compatibility's are straightened out XP might be
the
> > way to go but I would suggest a little research to anyone thinking about
> the
> > upgrade.

> > P3 800
> > Abit BF6
> > 256 RAM
> > V5 5500 PCI
> > SB live value
> > LWFF USB

> > DN

> > > Sorry Dave, I totally disagree. After extensively using every version
> of
> > Mr
> > > Gates' Windows operating system since 3.1, I would say that XP is a
> major
> > > leap forward, and worth every pound of the 79 you have to pay!
> > > Iain

> > > > Even if it IS faster...the amount you gain will be SMALL, TINY,
> > LITTLE.
> > > > Take the money you would have to spend on XP and get a faster chip.
> The
> > > > performance difference between "upgrading" to XP vs buying a faster
> cpu
> > is
> > > > not even close. Don't bother with XP unless you have a very
> specific
> > > NEED
> > > > that is meets.(for example improved home networking)
otherwise...your
> > > > spending lots of money for a very small gain.

> > > > dave henrie

> > > > "Destroy" <
> > > > > >The nvidia 2000/XP drivers is top notch.

> > > > > But still slower in XP than win98. Perhaps all this poor frame
rate
> is
> > > > > due to poor XP video driver optimization but until it gets proven
> > better
> > > > > for ***, I would recommend shying away from XP. It may be
stable
> > but
> > > > > its slower the majority of the time.

> > > > > Here is another article btw.
> > > > > http://www.racesimcentral.net/

by **Dino** » Tue, 23 Oct 2001 06:21:21

Thanks for the link!

DN

> >I currently have XP and 98 loaded on a dual boot system and the XP
> >performance is noticeably slower than 98, It's probably hardware related
as
> >I have yet to find compatible drivers for my SB live, V5 or LWFF. GPL is
> >unplayable, N4 and F12001 are both slower in XP than 98.

> >If /when the hardware compatibility's are straightened out XP might be
the
> >way to go but I would suggest a little research to anyone thinking about
the
> >upgrade.

> >P3 800
> >Abit BF6
> >256 RAM
> >V5 5500 PCI
> >SB live value
> >LWFF USB

> >DN

> With the Voodoo driver development screeching to a dead halt I'm not
> surprised, 3dfx being dead and all.

> I had troubles with SBLive + GPL too, the drivers that comes built-in
> sucks bigtime. There are better though, some that actually works:

http://www.electic.com/cgi-bin/news/News/Stories/2001/10/19/100350878...
l

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