rec.autos.simulators

I think a few small steps would be more prudent than the proposed EXTREME
rules.

An example of why the winner of the previous week must start in the rear
just wont work.  I won last week, why should I even start at the rear, the
likelihood of getting wrecked increases the farther back I am.  I'd gladly
trade 20 points for the possibility/probability of not even finishing the
race thus losing an even greater number of points and not even being able to
race to conclusion.

This isnt GPL...

Last week was a fine race.  Any of the rules you mention wouldnt have made
much if any difference except to take away some fun for a few guys.  Hell, I
dont chat while racing, thats not the point.  The point is we dont need the
FN chat police.  What about when there isnt a clear evidense of blame, both
must suffer point deducts?  Again, just more controversy.

Three rules would do everything your beuaracratic ruleset tries to
accomplish.

No flaming public/private.
Self spin twice park it.
No racing back to yellow.

Mitch

Me too, just wanna race.

I finished the practice race. Average 1:17's 18's. Best lap was 1:16.4. Made
one tire stop, and a splash of gas.

John, I'm using the repaint you did. Thanks. Do I need to upload a new car
file?

bluestringer

The end of the world must be nigh!

Bruce.

A mail to an admin isn't always the right thing. Sometimes it's better
if those involved simply discuss their matters, and in public if they chose
to do so.

In this context, it's a good idea to penalise derisive or inflammatory
language, and also the idea to request a 12 hour break between the race and
the posting, as that might have  exactly the effect on the racing I assume
you're trying to achieve.

Achim

The "discussions" have NEVER ended well. Pocono was the last straw.
If a driver's actionis deemed worthy of a penalty, that's where it
stops.  If somene thinks I missed something in the race report, they
need to contact me or Eldred by email, but only after they evaluate
their replay objectively.  It's not that hard to understand, and it
really helps to maintain order in subsequent races.

Simply being involved is not a crime. Being the cause is worthy of a
penalty.

-Larry

I've been quiet during this whole thing, mainly because I was not at Pocono,
but I've never quite seen such an over-reaction to something in my life.

I'm taking a wait-and-see stance, but I have to say I'm not liking what I
see so far.

We do NOT need Micro-Management around here.

That's all I have to say for now :)

-Larry

But RASCAR is a usenet-based social event, and turning it into a
power-orientated, hierarchically structured full blown league will take away
a lot of its current appeal. It may improve the racing, but from recent
discussions I'm not sure whether the majority of the RASCAR drivers wants to
pay this price.

I therefor think this fundamental choice should be made first, as if this is
not cleared up, RASCAR might break under the strain. A system of positive
motivations rather than severe punishments would probably cause less
friction.

I also think that if RASCAR isn't voted to turn into a full blown league by
the drivers, you personally need to determine your position. Speaking tongue
in cheek, your strategies often don't fully match with the situation that
you haven't been officially empowered ;-) and for all I can see this keeps
leading to conflicts. So maybe this question should also be cleared up once
and for all. I know you're saying nobody else is doing the job so you're
doing it, but I think it would be beneficial to the racing and overall
situation of RASCAR if this question would be clearly answered.

Achim

I appreciate all you do for RASCAR John, but these rules just seem to
be too excessive.  There are so many point deductions that we are
gonna end up with people leading the points race with negative
numbers, not too mention the fact that its gonna be an admin
nightmare.  Besides when was it decided we would keep track of points?
Most of the people that race in RASCAR don't give a ***about points
and probably won't even if they are tracked, so losing points won't be
any kind of a penalty to them.  If we are gonna run for points fine...
I just think that there will be people that only race occasionally
that just dont care about points.

I know chatting is a huge issue with you and I am sure that we all
universally agree that there should be no chatting during Qual, but,
honestly I think the only one that cares about chatting under yellow
is you.

The funny thing is, I doubt that any of the rules will be an issue for
me personally because I don't do any of the things you want to
penalize people for and I think that goes for the majority who race in
RASCAR as well.  However, I think if you impose all of these you
probably will see people quit simply due to the fact that it will be
impossible to try and keep track of them all.  

I still think we just need some sort of demerit system that results in
race suspensions and ultimately permanent suspension.  That way we can
promote clean driving and weed out those that week after week show an
inability to control their car.

Brian

Like I too have said many times John - GPL racing is an *entirely different
ballgame*:

- How often are *you affected* if *another driver spins* out in GPL?

- How often do you race "bumper to bumper" in GPL ?

- How often [in GPL] are even withing 5 carlengths of the car infront?

- What did 9 out of 10 drivers do when they saw a yellow flag in GPL?

- How often did you even have the chance get your hands of the steering
wheel to safely type a single word in GPL?

- How often were you driving behind a pacecar?

- How often did you have to slow down in order to get behind a pace car?

- How often did cars that spun out/crashed end up "in the middle of the
road" in GPL?
9 out of 10 times any car that spun off or crased would end up off track.

- How many drivers attended each race? 10? 15? Surely not 25.

- etc. etc.

I never thought I had to ask this but, have you ever been in a [online]
NASCAR league John?

--
ed_