Which card would be the best bet...I play Nascar1999 and the up coming N2(GPL) I have a P II 300 and a Matrox Millennium /4mb now
TIA,
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- Eric
Which card would be the best bet...I play Nascar1999 and the up coming
N2(GPL) I have a P II 300 and a Matrox Millennium /4mb now
Thanks Eric,
May ask Why?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------- Scott Eslick ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
- Eric
ICQ # 3889251
Scott's Sim Site
Director-N2Offline Super Truck Series
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Stay away from the Banshee...
Which card would be the best bet...I play Nascar1999 and the up coming
N2(GPL) I have a P II 300 and a Matrox Millennium /4mb now
- Eric
Thanks Eric,
May ask Why?
Thanks Again Eric!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------- Scott Eslick ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
- Eric
May ask Why?
ICQ # 3889251
Scott's Sim Site
Director-N2Offline Super Truck Series
Click to subscribe to the SuperTrucks Mailing List
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About the only thing it has going for it is that, like the Voodoo2, it
runs Glide games. Unlike the Voodoo2 it has 16MB configurations (still
with no AGP texturing), but it lacks the Voodoo2's multitexture
capability. However you'll still have the inherent 3Dfx limitations of
all 16-bit rendering and a pretty poor beta OpenGL ICD. If you
desperately want to replace your current 2D card with a 2D/3D card that
can run Glide games I guess it would be an ok choice (it's the only
choice), but the better solution would be to add a Voodoo2. Personally
I wouldn't buy either, but that's another story...
Thanks Eric,
> About the only thing it has going for it is that, like the Voodoo2, it
> runs Glide games. Unlike the Voodoo2 it has 16MB configurations (still
> with no AGP texturing), but it lacks the Voodoo2's multitexture
> capability. However you'll still have the inherent 3Dfx limitations of
> all 16-bit rendering and a pretty poor beta OpenGL ICD. If you
> desperately want to replace your current 2D card with a 2D/3D card that
> can run Glide games I guess it would be an ok choice (it's the only
> choice), but the better solution would be to add a Voodoo2. Personally
> I wouldn't buy either, but that's another story...
> - Eric
Every 2D/3D (or 3D) card out there has compromises, that's why I'm
running a V2200 with V2's on the side.
When the V2's drop to $99 then it could be a close call. Overall the Banshee
tops out better than the V2 as only a handfult of fps use multitexturing.
TNT is good but the lack of Glide means I still need a glide card in it.
Also the speed overall on the TNT is a bit overrated imo.
All three cards performance wise are close enough that it's fairly trivial
to me.
16 bit-24 bit is trivial to me, don't notice when I'm playing and have to go
out of my way to notice when I look for it.
PCI cards are running faster the their AGP counterparts both Banshee and
TNT.
I think Eric is off a bit or quite a bit in his as***t.
Building 450 mhz systems for $775 includes monitor and the Banshee was my
card of choice.
BH
That's one big ONLY!
Okay, that's two things!
True. Is this an issue in any sim? I don't mean this as a challenge, just a
question. AFAIK, the multitextured games are based on the Quake engine. What
else uses multitextures right now? What do we know of in the pipleine that
uses them? Remember, the majority reading here are simmers.
Don't know about how the OpenGL rates. Isn't it good enough for OpenGL
***? Aren't Voodoo framerates in Quake, et al, as good or better than any
other chipset's?
As to the 16-bit, again, how much of an issue is that right now, near future,
and especially in sims? I've read the quotes from developers (all action 1st
person types) in response to Q's on the V3's capabilities. They seemed to say
that 16-bit *will* be a limitiation, though some thought that the V3 would be
about the last to get away with it. To me, that means that for now, and the
next few months to a year, 16-bit might be fine. And I wonder how much of a
difference it really makes, especially in sims. I've looked at a lot of those
bitmaps showing how "awful" one card looks, how much "better" a TNT, G200, or
whatever looks, and frankly, not a big deal to me. Now instead of studying a
still and instead be hugging a turn at Monza at 140mph and 30+ fps, and I
doubt I'll be worring about a slight dithering difference.
So, that makes it an excellent choice!
I might agree that the V2 is the better choice. Except the Banshee does have
more texture memory (right?), 3D in a window (not a biggee to me), and support
of 1024x768 and above with/without z-buffering. Still, a TNT and V2 might be
a better, albeit far more expensive, approach.
I don't mean this to sound as unequivocal, or challenging as it might appear.
I do find it interesting that what started as a "don't buy it" turns into
something which indicates that there are compelling reasons to indeed buy it.
What I really wonder about is the relevance of the drawbacks of the Banshee.
I'm in the same boat. I don't feel like "upgrading" to a card that doesn't
have multi-texturing, doesn't have 24/32-bit rendering, doesn't have "real"
AGP support. But would I see a difference with any of those features now? 3
months from now? 6? 12? By then, might I have the next generation whiz-bang
card?
And would I buy a card now that has all that, but doesn't play half the titles
I play at all, or at substantially reduced performance?
- Eric
The only sims I Have are GP2 and GPL.... I'm not into Quake and whatever else there are out there..
So, what is a good choice?>?
> That's one big ONLY!
> >Unlike the Voodoo2 it has 16MB configurations (still with no AGP texturing),
> Okay, that's two things!
> > but it lacks the Voodoo2's multitexture capability.
> True. Is this an issue in any sim? I don't mean this as a challenge, just a
> question. AFAIK, the multitextured games are based on the Quake engine. What
> else uses multitextures right now? What do we know of in the pipleine that
> uses them? Remember, the majority reading here are simmers.
> >However you'll still have the inherent 3Dfx limitations of
> >all 16-bit rendering and a pretty poor beta OpenGL ICD.
> Don't know about how the OpenGL rates. Isn't it good enough for OpenGL
> ***? Aren't Voodoo framerates in Quake, et al, as good or better than any
> other chipset's?
> As to the 16-bit, again, how much of an issue is that right now, near future,
> and especially in sims? I've read the quotes from developers (all action 1st
> person types) in response to Q's on the V3's capabilities. They seemed to say
> that 16-bit *will* be a limitiation, though some thought that the V3 would be
> about the last to get away with it. To me, that means that for now, and the
> next few months to a year, 16-bit might be fine. And I wonder how much of a
> difference it really makes, especially in sims. I've looked at a lot of those
> bitmaps showing how "awful" one card looks, how much "better" a TNT, G200, or
> whatever looks, and frankly, not a big deal to me. Now instead of studying a
> still and instead be hugging a turn at Monza at 140mph and 30+ fps, and I
> doubt I'll be worring about a slight dithering difference.
> >If you
> >desperately want to replace your current 2D card with a 2D/3D card that
> >can run Glide games I guess it would be an ok choice (it's the only
> >choice),
> So, that makes it an excellent choice!
> > but the better solution would be to add a Voodoo2. Personally
> >I wouldn't buy either, but that's another story...
> I might agree that the V2 is the better choice. Except the Banshee does have
> more texture memory (right?), 3D in a window (not a biggee to me), and support
> of 1024x768 and above with/without z-buffering. Still, a TNT and V2 might be
> a better, albeit far more expensive, approach.
> I don't mean this to sound as unequivocal, or challenging as it might appear.
> I do find it interesting that what started as a "don't buy it" turns into
> something which indicates that there are compelling reasons to indeed buy it.
> What I really wonder about is the relevance of the drawbacks of the Banshee.
> I'm in the same boat. I don't feel like "upgrading" to a card that doesn't
> have multi-texturing, doesn't have 24/32-bit rendering, doesn't have "real"
> AGP support. But would I see a difference with any of those features now? 3
> months from now? 6? 12? By then, might I have the next generation whiz-bang
> card?
> And would I buy a card now that has all that, but doesn't play half the titles
> I play at all, or at substantially reduced performance?
GPL supported Glide and Rendition's native Redline API out of the box.
Supposedly, the best performer for this particular title is the Hercules
Thriller 8MB (Rendition 2200), with Voodoo2 next best. GPL now supports most
any card via OpenGL, but I don't know how well.
Out of luck with GP2 as it doesn't support any 3D API, ie it won't be
accelerated by anything other than a faster CPU.
GPL:
Best choice: Hercules Thriller 8MB, a combo 2D/3D card (don't know the price).
Next: Voodoo Banshee, a combo 2D/3D card (Guillemot has one for $90 after
rebate, check www.guillemot.com).
Next: Any Voodoo2 card (Diamond Monster2, etc).
Next: Any Voodoo1 card
Next(?): TNT using OpenGL API.
If you plan to get any other racing games in the future (like Monaco GP RS2),
I'd recommend not dead-ending yourself with the Hercules. Instead, I'd get a
Voodoo2 and keep your Millenium to handle 2D. Basically, Glide is supported
by a lot of current games, sometimes solely. But I'd expect future titles to
mostly support D3D, or a choice of D3D or Glide. With the occasional
(especially Quake-type) OpenGL support.
when I had my old P166, GP2 (no 3D accelleration) didn't run faster with a Banshee than with my old Matrox
Mystique, but is up to full detail and speed with my K6-2 350.
Ian
"I want to go into neutral but I'm not in me car." - Uncle Peter
> GPL:
> Best choice: Hercules Thriller 8MB, a combo 2D/3D card (don't know the >price).
Some good points no doubt, and while I love my SLI'd Voodoo2's, IMHO it
was definitely worth the $91 to add the Thriller to my system as well.
It's not that bad at 2D in Windows (compared to the first gen. Rendition
chip), has a 230MHz RAMDAC (vs. 135 for 1st gen. Renditions), and it's
very fast at SVGA in DOS (important for GP2, <g>), but above all, the
image quality of the Rendition V2200 (on the Thriller) is far better
than that of the V2. No washed out colors, indeed they seem much
crisper and "purer", and only with a Rendition board can you turn on the
antialiasing feature.
