rec.autos.simulators

I see some people say "Game X is not a sim because of Y observation".

It reminds me of the old "True 3D" go around with Doom, Quake, Duke3d, etc.

To me, everything from pole position to the full cab professional simulators
are all sims.  What's different is the quality of the simulation.

Dirt Track Racing for example is a simulation of Dirt Track Racing on the PC.
If you want to say it's not a very good simulation, fine.  But to say it's not
a simulation of Dirt Track Racing I think is kind of silly.  Could it be
better?  Yes.  Show me any software that could *not* be better.

Maybe GPL isn't a sim because the road surface is always perfectly smooth.  No
cracks or rough patches in the road surfaces.  The only time your suspension
moves is from cornering or accelerating/decelerating.

glen

Haven't seen DTR so can't say what I'd call it

Like you say, no matter how good it is, it can always be better.... but GPL
does take into account elevation - maybe not surface imperfections, but the
suspension does respond according to the hills....    FLUGPLATZ!    :o)

However, I could be wrong...

<remove 7of9 for e-mail replies>

--
Bill Jones    e-mail addresses:


(860) 701-1201   WWW:   http://pages.cthome.net/billj

For most of us it's true.  I consider such thing as Indy500: The simulator
as a simulator.  The history of *** should not exclude old sims as being
now games since they are old and unsophisticated.

For myself I have very strict rules.  I never employ those terms but I
consider all "games" as virtual reality entertainment.  I exclude from the
meaning of a "virtual reality simulator" all games that are axed as pure
fantasy, who on purpose modify the virtual reality to make it more
implausible.  You know... powerups don't exist in real-life, tracks in
space, cars who don't exist, etc..

To everybody his own margin of what is a sim or not.  But the fact is that
this is a newsgroup where a multitude of people come and give their opinion.
And as a "whole", we are mostly *** racing simulation fans, and we have
around the same choices as what is a sim or not.  You know.. Daytona USA and
Grand Prix Legends for most of us are an arcade game and a racing simulator,
but it's when we go towards the middle that people do not agree.

--
-- Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard>
-- May the Downforce be with you...

"People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realise
how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world."

Sure but what brought that up?

      BEOROCKET Racing: www.beorocket.co.yu

True...

I agree with the quality of the sim...but not the fact that everything is a
sim.  Need For Speed is kinda on the border - the cars are realistic and the
physics are OK, but flawed - in NFS3, you almost NEVER need the brakes.  It
goes down from there - stuff like Jeff Gordon XS - a sim of what???

I think that DTR is an awesome sim/game/whatever!!!  Who cares if it isn't
110% realistic, on my LAN , it RULES!!!!

You could call it the current pinnacle of sims - most PCs have hard enough
time with GPL as it is.  Modelling that much of the track would kill even
the fastest PCs.

--
Kirk Lane


ICQ: 28171652
BRT #187

"It goes down the same as a thousand before
No one's gettin' smarter, no one's learnin the score
The never ending spree of death and *** and hate
Is gonna tie your own rope"
                         -'Come Out And Play', The Offspring

If I don't jump up and knock them into the water in time, there is a
simulation of a turtle wearing underwear coming out of his shell to
flip it back over before climbing inside.

The jumping physics are also excellent, so you can't use that argument
against it. The Brothers also look a little bit alike, despite being
quite different, much like many real life brothers.
Yes indeed, Super Mario Brothers is a fine, fine sim.

Tim

It simulates something that is impossible in real-life.  Have you ever seen
two brother plumbers jumping over green tubes and squishing toads ?   And
for me it eliminates the term "sim" as it doesn't simulates something that
is real.

--
-- Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard>
-- May the Downforce be with you...

"People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realise
how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world."

You obviously haven't seen my ba***t! :)

Later,
John

Did you ever try driving Mosport, i believe the suspension moves quit a lot
here. Besides when on earth in racing aren't you braking or
accelerating/decelerating, the point of the game/sim(as you please) is not
to take the family out of a nice drive around monza. When your not acc,dec
or braking in gpl you are doing something wrong.

To me a sim is a sim as soon as i can aply the physics from real life
driving to my driving in a computer simulated situation and this wil result
in better laptimes etc. An arcade is a game where you just ignore real life
physics and can go around a 90 degree corner full throtle. Ofcourse a trhu
to life sim is not possible at this time with current technologie since the
loose of traction of wheels when braking still has to be judges by ear since
you don't feel your car orking, still its the best we have now and it suits
me fine until someone else finds a better affordable way to solve this prob.
Then there is also the 2d/3d vieuwing, always looking forward while in a car
you are able (and you will) look side ways towards the apex even if your
still driving forward. IN sims you always loo where the nose is pointing,
well believe me i never saw a driver aproaching a thight hairpin looking
straight forward until the point he turns in still until v.r. glasses with
head tracking kicks in(and i hope in the very near future) there is no
solution to this. Still i'm able to aply my knowledge of real race driving
to the sim and be able to drive better no matter how much things there are
left to improve to get an even better experience of real life driving.
Besides i think that ther are only sims or arcade racers, there are many
grays (games with sim qualities, sims with game qualities etc.). For example
take gran turismo. It's a game but it's also a sim. Her for example the cars
do behave towards the patches in the road and driving the right lines on the
circuits gives me better lap times. Still the physics are somehow a bit
adapted it's a lot easier to drive then for example gpl still they both are
able to give me a feeling tat i'm driving a real (race)car. To me they are
both sims and they both have there own kwalities. Sega rally is an arcade
racer, no matter how well you know racing car physics it won't help your lap
times.

But in the end it's just a matter of definition and for most of us in this
newsgroup the def. is fairly close the same. You could discuss hours about
this but in the end you secretly already knew what most of us ment when
talking about sims. Words doesn't matter meaning does.

just my 2c

Andre Hanegraaf
Amsterdam

Two examples:
GPL is definatly a sim, because papy's main goal was to make the most
realistic sim ever made.

NFS3 is definatly NOT a sim, because the emphasis clearly lies on the
graphics and the police action, while the actual driving is in fact
worse than earlier versions.

In my opinion a game with similar physics to NFS3 could be sim, if the
creators intended it to be. The difference is that that game would be a
bad sim, while NFS3 is a good arcade racer. (To bad for EA I don't like
arcade racers.) So if we take an old sim with physics inferior to NFS3
it will always remain a sim, because at the time of creation the
creators made it as realistic as possible for them.

// Johan

I now see the error of my ways, and Mario Brothers is merely a game.

NFL Blitz... Now THERES a simulation!

Tim

Sjoerd

As a matter of fact...yes, yes I have.