rec.autos.simulators

Another sim site gets the strong arm of the law...

Jan Koh

Another sim site gets the strong arm of the law...

by Jan Koh » Fri, 27 Apr 2001 14:07:25

RG at http://www.racesimcentral.net/;recieved a nice letter yesterday, from Alston & Bird,
(http://www.racesimcentral.net/), attorneys for Tommy Bahama (http://www.racesimcentral.net/).

Why?

Because he was putting together the 2001 Trans Am cars for SCGT, and Tommy Bahama is the
sponsor for the #88 Brian Simo Mangusta.  They didn't like his paintscheme being given
out for free...

First Ubisoft, now them, who's next?  It's starting to spread, folks...I mentioned this
about a year ago in this post...
http://www.racesimcentral.net/

So, what can we do about it? Really only two choices...ignore it, or email the people in
question.  Refusal to purchase their products goes a long way...

Cheers!

--
?? Jan Kohl ??
SECURITY CONSULTANT
The Pits -  http://www.racesimcentral.net/
Castle  Graphics - http://www.racesimcentral.net/

Gaul

Another sim site gets the strong arm of the law...

by Gaul » Fri, 27 Apr 2001 14:34:37


(http://www.tommybahama.com/).

Bizarre. They pay lots of money in order for people to see their logos and
then complain when hobbyists duplicate it for non-commercial purposes?
Doesn't make much sense to me from a business standpoint. You'll alienate
some of the very fans you're trying to attract.

Toe ou

Another sim site gets the strong arm of the law...

by Toe ou » Fri, 27 Apr 2001 15:00:03

I think this is a case of a mis-informed lawyer.  He/She probably believes
that RG is somehow profiting by making his patch available. I don't think
that any legal action can be taken if the so called copyright/trademark
"violator" isn't making any money.

If the still he/she still insists that he take it down then make that lawyer
explain the legality of these situations:
If I go to a Trans-Am race and take a picture of the #88 Mangusta, then put
it up on my website can they make me take it down? Fat chance.
If I model a box in VRML with that picture on it and put it on my website
can they make me take it down? I doubt it.
If I model the #88 Mangusta, apply accurate textures, render a scene and
then stick that on my website am I breaking any laws? Don't think so.
If I make that model available as a free download on my website....

All of these are "free downloads" aren't they?

I don't think RG has anything to worry about.

T.O.

ymenar

Another sim site gets the strong arm of the law...

by ymenar » Fri, 27 Apr 2001 15:47:25


> I think this is a case of a mis-informed lawyer.  He/She probably believes
> that RG is somehow profiting by making his patch available. I don't think
> that any legal action can be taken if the so called copyright/trademark
> "violator" isn't making any money.

It's not a case of making profit or not.  Was there any kind of copyright
agreement on XYZ sponsor? If there wasn't, it's illegal.  The company did
not approve it.  Same thing to link a website on your site.

--
-- Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard>
-- May the Downforce be with you...
-- http://www.ymenard.com/
-- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimato Dominguez
Corporation - helping America into the New World...

Kevin Gavit

Another sim site gets the strong arm of the law...

by Kevin Gavit » Fri, 27 Apr 2001 21:23:27


(http://www.tommybahama.com/).

An interesting response might be to send them a *bill* in consideration of
the advertising and promotional effort.

KFG

Chris Wes

Another sim site gets the strong arm of the law...

by Chris Wes » Sat, 28 Apr 2001 00:54:39

As a matter of interest, how does this all work with say paintings. If I was
at a race and painted a race scene and then sold my paintings and prints? Or
I was producing a book on the race series and took a lot of pictures to use
in the book?
Kevin Gavit

Another sim site gets the strong arm of the law...

by Kevin Gavit » Sat, 28 Apr 2001 02:21:54


Let's just say that Campbell's didn't sue Andy Warhol. It has also been
legally declared by the Supreme court that you have the right to take a
picture of anything you can see from a public place. That would include
billboards and various other advertising signs. Such pictures may be
published, even for profit, without permission of the people, places or
things included in the photographs. ( Please note that a football stadium,
or a racetrack, may NOT legally be such a public place, depending on many
factors that only judge with a particular case before him can truely
decide).

On the other hand the lawyers are starting to make things pretty weird out
there.

KFG

Larr

Another sim site gets the strong arm of the law...

by Larr » Sat, 28 Apr 2001 02:25:16

It's a me, me, me world, especially in corporate america.

Things are too damned possessive these days :(

-Larry


(http://www.tommybahama.com/).

Larr

Another sim site gets the strong arm of the law...

by Larr » Sat, 28 Apr 2001 04:19:31

It's ALWAYS about money.

-Larry



> > I think this is a case of a mis-informed lawyer.  He/She probably
believes
> > that RG is somehow profiting by making his patch available. I don't
think
> > that any legal action can be taken if the so called copyright/trademark
> > "violator" isn't making any money.

> It's not a case of making profit or not.  Was there any kind of copyright
> agreement on XYZ sponsor? If there wasn't, it's illegal.  The company did
> not approve it.  Same thing to link a website on your site.

> --
> -- Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard>
> -- May the Downforce be with you...
> -- http://www.ymenard.com/
> -- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimato Dominguez
> Corporation - helping America into the New World...

Art McEwe

Another sim site gets the strong arm of the law...

by Art McEwe » Sat, 28 Apr 2001 04:56:26

It used to be "Hockey Night in Canada"  would make an announcement every
game that went roughly:  "rebroadcast or retransmission of this broadcast in
whole or in part is expressly forbidden..."

So technically I couldn't tell you the score of the game without risking
getting sued.


J. Todd Wass

Another sim site gets the strong arm of the law...

by J. Todd Wass » Sat, 28 Apr 2001 07:14:54

  The money from those logos are being paid to the racing team/series owners.
The right to use the car(s) in a video game can be sold for quite a lot of
money, so why would they allow folks to do it for free?  If you write and sell
a racing game, it'll make a lot more money if it's got all the real
Indycars/whatever from this year, the real driver names and paintschemes, etc.,
then if you just made up a series that wasn't real.  Therefore, the licensing
fees paid to team/series owners is an investment.  If the owners *choose* to
allow free distribution because they believe the "advertising" is worth more
than the potential licensing fees, they can do so.  My point is, it's their
decision, not ours, since it's their money on the line.

  Don't get me wrong, I'd love to see a racing sim with every car in the world
too (except mine, blech!), but the fact is most of us would pay for expansion
packs with new cars and whatever else.  I don't blame them for protecting
themselves.  Any of us would probably do the same thing once we sat down and
figured how much money we were losing to "hobbyists", even though they might
make better products.

  Of course, as Jan Kohl mentioned, people that disagree with this view can
also choose to simply not purchase these sims.  

Todd Wasson
---
Performance Simulations
Drag Racing and Top Speed Prediction
Software
http://PerformanceSimulations.Com

J. Todd Wass

Another sim site gets the strong arm of the law...

by J. Todd Wass » Sat, 28 Apr 2001 07:27:02

  What if a *** company was considering including the Trans-Am car(s)
mentioned in a future videogame?  Since there were a few free extremely high
quality Trans-Am patches for existing games made by people who created the work
for free, the *** company may not bother to approach the car/series owner at
all about purchasing the right to do so in a commercial game, and may look to
another series instead.  Even though the "violator" has made no money for
his/her work, it could be strongly argued that the "violator's" actions have
prevented licensing sales, causing financial damages.  Probably a case for a
civil suit.

  I agree with you here because what you'd be doing in these situations is
probably financially harmless to the copyright owners, but it's still the
owners' decision whether to contact you or not on those matters.

Todd Wasson
---
Performance Simulations
Drag Racing and Top Speed Prediction
Software
http://www.racesimcentral.net/

The Enigmatic O

Another sim site gets the strong arm of the law...

by The Enigmatic O » Sat, 28 Apr 2001 08:19:04


says...

        Bullshit.  Corps can do whatever they want for profit.  Us real people
can do nothing.  You're a ***ing corporate ass***er.

                                        -Tim


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