rec.autos.simulators

by **Chris Schlette** » Wed, 19 May 1999 04:00:00

Hey thanks. :)

Yuppers, this is very true. Not a huge market there.

Right, although the Nascar fans may have more interest in older Nascar
legends than the modern F1/CART crowd.

Easy-to-jump-into modern racing sim? Isn't that like called an arcade game?
I'd say go grab SportscarGT for that. :)

And it isn't GPL thats the *** to drive, its those damnable yet lovable
cars! :)

True, I'd still like to see more tracks and be able to race modern
openwheelers on some of those tracks. :)

Perhaps in the short term. I don't think it will be the last great sim,
there just may be a plateau for awhile. :)

by **Joel Willstei** » Wed, 19 May 1999 04:00:00

I think you're getting carried away with this. The fact that we already
purchased GPL,should show Sierra/papyrus,just how sincere we are about great
auto sims. But buying copy after copy to prove your point is silly to say
the least.

Joel Willstein

by **Harjan Bran** » Wed, 19 May 1999 04:00:00

Let's all start buying as many copies of GPL as we can miss, let's show how
much we appreciate a realistic engine. I hate arcade racers and I don't want
to be confronted by a growing percentage of arcade racers versus
simulations.

Papy respond by using the GPL engine for all different simulations,
CART, Nascar, 70's F1, 80'F1 and maybe even modern F1. If you bring the same
realism to this simulators, we'll keep supporting you guys all the way.

by **Zonk** » Wed, 19 May 1999 04:00:00

>Path:
>Let's all start buying as many copies of GPL as we can miss, let's show how
>much we appreciate a realistic engine. I hate arcade racers and I don't want
>to be confronted by a growing percentage of arcade racers versus
>simulations.

>Papy respond by using the GPL engine for all different simulations,
>CART, Nascar, 70's F1, 80'F1 and maybe even modern F1. If you bring the same
>realism to this simulators, we'll keep supporting you guys all the way.

Again, see my comments from last week on TOCA 2 realism and arcade racers V
Sims. I'm of the opinion we're all too much minorities here for the companies
to really give too much of a damn about. Sad, but i fear the truth.

I live in hope of dual sim and arcade models, but i doubt i'd be buying NASCAR
3, anyway, GPL engine or not, so it's not of such interest to me.

Z.

Please remove NOSPAM from my email address when replying.

by **John Bod** » Wed, 19 May 1999 04:00:00

Here's your chance to buy multiple copies of GPL for what you probably
paid for your original single copy (I discovered this from a post here
in the newsgroup, so we owe someone else thanks):

The Interact! on-line CD-ROM store (http://www.interactcd.com/) has
GPL for $14.95. Priority Mail shipping in was only $3.50 or so, and
the grand total was less than $19. Quite a deal! I've heard that there
are some VERY interesting conversions in the works for GPL, as well as
the V1.1 patch which will (reportedly) add Force Feedback effects and
variable AI levels and such, so if you haven't bought it yet, now's
the time -- and if you want to buy multiple copies to support Papy,
you can do so and save yourself some $$ at the same time!

-- JB

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On Tue, 18 May 1999 12:15:04 +0200, "Harjan Brand"

>Let's all start buying as many copies of GPL as we can miss, let's show how
>much we appreciate a realistic engine. I hate arcade racers and I don't want
>to be confronted by a growing percentage of arcade racers versus
>simulations.

>Papy respond by using the GPL engine for all different simulations,
>CART, Nascar, 70's F1, 80'F1 and maybe even modern F1. If you bring the same
>realism to this simulators, we'll keep supporting you guys all the way.

by **John Bod** » Wed, 19 May 1999 04:00:00

>>Path:

>>Let's all start buying as many copies of GPL as we can miss, let's show how
>>much we appreciate a realistic engine. I hate arcade racers and I don't want
>>to be confronted by a growing percentage of arcade racers versus
>>simulations.

>>Papy respond by using the GPL engine for all different simulations,
>>CART, Nascar, 70's F1, 80'F1 and maybe even modern F1. If you bring the same
>>realism to this simulators, we'll keep supporting you guys all the way.

>Again, see my comments from last week on TOCA 2 realism and arcade racers V
>Sims. I'm of the opinion we're all too much minorities here for the companies
>to really give too much of a damn about. Sad, but i fear the truth.

Unfortunately, you may be right on this -- I've heard that Viper
Racing (a fine sim in its own right, to be sure) has so far outsold
GPL. Based on GPL's apparent popularity, this really surprised me.
It appears that GPL has not been a money-maker for Papy, which has
them concerned, I'm sure.

by **John Walla** » Wed, 19 May 1999 04:00:00

On Tue, 18 May 1999 12:15:04 +0200, "Harjan Brand"

>Let's all start buying as many copies of GPL as we can miss, let's show how
>much we appreciate a realistic engine. I hate arcade racers and I don't want
>to be confronted by a growing percentage of arcade racers versus
>simulations.
>Papy respond by using the GPL engine for all different simulations,
>CART, Nascar, 70's F1, 80'F1 and maybe even modern F1. If you bring the same
>realism to this simulators, we'll keep supporting you guys all the way.

If 1,000,000 people buy NFS3 and 1,000 people buy N3 I presume our
support will involve paying $1,000 per copy?

Cheers!
John

by **Remco Moe** » Wed, 19 May 1999 04:00:00

>On Tue, 18 May 1999 12:15:04 +0200, "Harjan Brand"

>>Let's all start buying as many copies of GPL as we can miss, let's show how
>>much we appreciate a realistic engine. I hate arcade racers and I don't want
>>to be confronted by a growing percentage of arcade racers versus
>>simulations.
>>Papy respond by using the GPL engine for all different simulations,
>>CART, Nascar, 70's F1, 80'F1 and maybe even modern F1. If you bring the same
>>realism to this simulators, we'll keep supporting you guys all the way.

>If 1,000,000 people buy NFS3 and 1,000 people buy N3 I presume our
>support will involve paying $1,000 per copy?

If NFS3 costs $1,then you're right.

Remco

by **Chris Schlette** » Wed, 19 May 1999 04:00:00

Well unfortunately I think GPL's "failure" has as much to do with its genre
as it not really having an "Arcade" setting. You can look at it two ways;
either GPL zapped itself by being very realistic and therefore excluding a
large portion of perhaps those that might have bought it, except that large
portion was also further reduced by the fact that its a reproduction of 1967
F1 racing....or you can look at it just in the reverse manner. Personally I
think those that are going to buy a 1967 F1 racing game of any stripe is a
small pool of customers indeed, then you further shrink it by the high
quality racing engine and you get lukewarm sales. Personally I think that a
modern day CART/F1/NASCAR/whatever sim would have sold much better even
given the more complex driving engine.

by **D&S Schwab** » Wed, 19 May 1999 04:00:00

Chris... I think you probably hit it on the head... no you DID hit it on the
head.

Think about the people that go to watch a historic race, be it at Road
America in the US, or who go to Goodwood in the UK... these are the people
who will have an interest in GPL.

The fans of Nascar, or even modern F1, probably have little interest in
"museum pieces." They are *history* in their minds... so racing "old" cars
has little appeal to many of the racing masses.

When you combine this relatively low level of historical interest with
rumors (and fairly correct ones) that GPL is a b*tch to drive, folks who are
looking for an easy-to-jump-into modern racing sim will just stay away.

Those who love GPL are UTTERLY devoted to it... and reap the rewards of the
best racing sim ever made.

I too think it's a mistake to blame the physics engine on lack of sales, tho
it maybe didn't help any in the mass market. I think it's a combination of
things mentioned above... too bad because it's the best there ever was, and
unfortunately, could be the best there ever will be if all of these swirling
rumors are to be believed.

--Dave

>> Unfortunately, you may be right on this -- I've heard that Viper
>> Racing (a fine sim in its own right, to be sure) has so far outsold
>> GPL. Based on GPL's apparent popularity, this really surprised me.
>> It appears that GPL has not been a money-maker for Papy, which has
>> them concerned, I'm sure.

>Well unfortunately I think GPL's "failure" has as much to do with its genre
>as it not really having an "Arcade" setting. You can look at it two ways;
>either GPL zapped itself by being very realistic and therefore excluding a
>large portion of perhaps those that might have bought it, except that large
>portion was also further reduced by the fact that its a reproduction of
1967
>F1 racing....or you can look at it just in the reverse manner. Personally
I
>think those that are going to buy a 1967 F1 racing game of any stripe is a
>small pool of customers indeed, then you further shrink it by the high
>quality racing engine and you get lukewarm sales. Personally I think that
a
>modern day CART/F1/NASCAR/whatever sim would have sold much better even
>given the more complex driving engine.

by **Michael Barlo** » Wed, 19 May 1999 04:00:00

To add to that... (physics engine is not the reason....) What percentage of
Sim buyers download the demo to get the feel of the physics engine? I'd take a
guess that the biggest portion of Sim drivers are the ones that see a racing
game on the shelf and buy it or not buy it because of what's on the box.

The only reason to not buy it because of the physics engine is *only* if you
tried the demo first.

--
=========================================
Mike Barlow of Barlow Racing?
=========================================
Member of R.O.R. 1999
http://www.pivot.net/~marknjess/ror.html
=========================================
Racing online with the help of......

Race Communications Association
http://members.xoom.com/RCA/toc.html

Holodyne Engineering

Mystic Music

mikeba.vcf
< 1K Download

by **Jay Wolf** » Wed, 19 May 1999 04:00:00

>>Let's all start buying as many copies of GPL as we can miss, let's show
how
>>much we appreciate a realistic engine. I hate arcade racers and I don't
>want
>>to be confronted by a growing percentage of arcade racers versus
>>simulations.

>>Papy respond by using the GPL engine for all different simulations,
>>CART, Nascar, 70's F1, 80'F1 and maybe even modern F1. If you bring the
>same
>>realism to this simulators, we'll keep supporting you guys all the way.

> I think you're getting carried away with this. The fact that we
already
>purchased GPL,should show Sierra/papyrus,just how sincere we are about
great
>auto sims. But buying copy after copy to prove your point is silly to say
>the least.

no, no it's not. apparently, sierra/papy realized smaller than anticipated
revenues from GPL. just for fun, imagine if they doubled their take on the
program. the sales figures would show directly how many copies of GPL were
sold. if people bought it, they would make more. simple economics. i, for
one, would've paid over $200 for GPL if forced to. and i would gladly fork
over that amount now if the end result was a equally stunning NASCAR
simulation. unfortunately, my $200 alone would not sway the market. we need
large numbers. heck, it might even get the point across moreso if we sent $
to the papy crew directly! this type of act should not be silnet, however.
or even "silent". (oops). papy would have to know what the intentions were
to have the desired impact. how about a show of hands from those who would
support such an act.

WHO WOULD HEREBY PLEDGE TO EITHER BUY ANOTHER COPY OF GPL OR MAKE AN
OUTRIGHT DONATION TO THE PAPY TEAM AS FUEL FOR THE CREATIVE FIRES?

1. jay wolfe
2. _____________

by **Meij** » Thu, 20 May 1999 04:00:00

I know a lot of people who liked the idea of GPL but after playing it
decided against buying it because it was too hard. Personally I like the
difficulty on occasions but sometimes I'd like to race against the drivers
in the game at, say, the Nurburgring without spending all my time facing
the wrong way.

What GPL was missing was a beginners mode that helped you enough so even a
total newbie could stay on track. All the reviews said "Great simulation,
but where's the game?" and to be honest I have to agree. The number of
people who want to spend dozens of hours learning to drive a specific car
at a specific track are minimal in this world and sales reflect it.

If NASCAR 3 goes the same way then it will also suffer. Perhaps, as Zonkie
said, Papyrus need to create an arcade mode as well as a heavy simulation
mode. Superbikes did it very well, why can't other games?

M

by **John Walla** » Thu, 20 May 1999 04:00:00

On Tue, 18 May 1999 08:26:36 -0500, "Chris Schletter"

>Personally I think that a
>modern day CART/F1/NASCAR/whatever sim would have sold much better even
>given the more complex driving engine.

More than likely, however sales are not the final judge - profits are
the ultimate target. Would those "increased sales" have been
sufficient to pay however many tens of millions Bernie requires for an
F1 license these days?! :-)

Cheers!
John

by **John Walla** » Thu, 20 May 1999 04:00:00

Veiled barb or arithmetical error? :-)

Cheers!
John

rec.autos.simulators

Let's indeed put our money where our mouth is, and Papy respond to this

Let's indeed put our money where our mouth is, and Papy respond to this

Let's indeed put our money where our mouth is, and Papy respond to this

Let's indeed put our money where our mouth is, and Papy respond to this

Let's indeed put our money where our mouth is, and Papy respond to this

Let's indeed put our money where our mouth is, and Papy respond to this

Let's indeed put our money where our mouth is, and Papy respond to this

Let's indeed put our money where our mouth is, and Papy respond to this

Let's indeed put our money where our mouth is, and Papy respond to this

Let's indeed put our money where our mouth is, and Papy respond to this

Let's indeed put our money where our mouth is, and Papy respond to this

Let's indeed put our money where our mouth is, and Papy respond to this

Let's indeed put our money where our mouth is, and Papy respond to this

Let's indeed put our money where our mouth is, and Papy respond to this

Let's indeed put our money where our mouth is, and Papy respond to this

Let's indeed put our money where our mouth is, and Papy respond to this