rec.autos.simulators

by **Pickar** » Thu, 01 Apr 1999 04:00:00

I have just bought my Diamond Sound MX300 and am pretty happy with
it...

I bought it OVER the SB Live 'cos it apparantly is able to support both
A3D and EAX... Is this true??

I know it use A3d because it is all over the box.. but apparanly you
can download an update or some patch to enable it to support EAX (SB
Live's format???)...

Does anyone know if this is true??? (hope it is.. otherwise I was
fiddled by the guy in the shop.. a "friend" apparant)....

Where can I get these pathces?? How does it work?? Is it just new
drivers???

I have 1.02 drivers.. they come with the box... the update seems
exactly the same version.. and only update 41 kb for a 14 meg
download!!!!! Not real happy about that...

I have a Celery 450 running '98....

Thanx

James Pickard,
Melbourne,
AUSTRALIA

PS.. Plz email AND reply :-)

by **Sinj** » Thu, 01 Apr 1999 04:00:00

The EAX patch hasn't materialized yet but as long as the game you are
playing supports A3D there is no reason to ever want to use the "far
LESS accurate and realistic" EAX reverbs vs. the true surround
mappings of A3D.

You made the RIGHT choice. You just may have to wait awhile for that
patch. BTW: That 14mb driver upgrade you downloaded was well worth
the time you spent - it fixes a lot of A3D 2.0 bugs.

ENJOY!

by **Sunny Cho** » Sat, 03 Apr 1999 04:00:00

Does the MX300 joystick port really improve responsiveness compared to
normal soundcards, esp the old SB cards?

Regards

Sunny Chow
Airscapes Gallery
---------------------------------------------------------
Aviation Art website: http://www.flight2000.com/airscapes
---------------------------------------------------------

by **Sinj** » Sat, 03 Apr 1999 04:00:00

YES! It's PCI so it polls the controller much faster than ISA. The
only thing faster would be USB.

by **René van Lobbere** » Sun, 04 Apr 1999 04:00:00

Don't think so, USB hangs on PCI and added to that, it is serial.

--
Ren van Lobberegt, The Netherlands.

Personal site : http://www.toptown.com/INNERCIRCLE/1846/

AMCA web master : http://www.amcaracing.nl/

by **Mark C Dod** » Sun, 04 Apr 1999 04:00:00

Hey, it worked with my Digital Joysticks, unlike the port on the SB
PCI64D.

I find USB is the way to go with joysticks and steering wheels.

> Does the MX300 joystick port really improve responsiveness compared to
> normal soundcards, esp the old SB cards?

> Regards

> Sunny Chow
> Airscapes Gallery
> ---------------------------------------------------------
> Aviation Art website: http://www.flight2000.com/airscapes
> ---------------------------------------------------------

by **Mark C Dod** » Sun, 04 Apr 1999 04:00:00

Thw USB port are pretty wll "Bus mastered" and tend to look after
themselves with very little if any CPU time dedicated to them. ThHis
makes USB devices much more responsive then PCI based ones. Just ry a
USB steering wheel or mouse. There is no comparison.

> > YES! It's PCI so it polls the controller much faster than ISA.
> > The only thing faster would be USB.

> Don't think so, USB hangs on PCI and added to that, it is serial.

> --
> Ren van Lobberegt, The Netherlands.

> Personal site : http://www.toptown.com/INNERCIRCLE/1846/

> AMCA web master : http://www.amcaracing.nl/

by **Jari Jokine** » Sun, 04 Apr 1999 04:00:00

ISA has certainly enough bandwith for controller inputs. I think
MX300 is better, because it is "accelerated" gameport like the
PDPI (which is ISA card). Look at PDPI homepage for explanation.

>YES! It's PCI so it polls the controller much faster than ISA. The
>only thing faster would be USB.

>>Does the MX300 joystick port really improve responsiveness compared to
>>normal soundcards, esp the old SB cards?

by **René van Lobbere** » Sun, 04 Apr 1999 04:00:00

Comparing USB wheels with gameport wheels is in priciple the same
as comparing apples with peers. USB wheels use an AD converter which
has data readily available for reading and can be updated every usec.
A gameport wheel needs to be timed, which may take 21usec (0ohm) up
to 1.1msec (100k)depending on the position.
This slow response has nothing to do with the way of addressing the
device. A USB wheel which would use the 'old style' timing would
show the same slowness.
But now compare these, an USB wheel (with that AD converter) and a
wheel (with the same AD converter) directly connected to the *ISA* bus.
For USB, the game has to issue a dataretrieval command through the
PCI bus to the USB port, which then will take over and go serially tell
the wheel to serially send the required data. This data then will be
available to the processor through the PCI bus.
On ISA, the processor can go get the data from the AD converter. Access
to the ISA bus will go through the PCI bus but is automaticaly mapped
onto the ISA bus.
Definitely the ISA wheel will cause less system load, and will give even
better response (ISA = 8MHz = 12.5nsec).
And then the mouse. Yes USB is faster here, but mainly (probably even
only) because of the higher serial baudrate.
The higher baudrate is also the reason why USB wheels are surviced
faster then serial-port wheels.

> Thw USB port are pretty wll "Bus mastered" and tend to look after
> themselves with very little if any CPU time dedicated to them. ThHis
> makes USB devices much more responsive then PCI based ones. Just ry a
> USB steering wheel or mouse. There is no comparison.

> > > YES! It's PCI so it polls the controller much faster than ISA.
> > > The only thing faster would be USB.

> > Don't think so, USB hangs on PCI and added to that, it is serial.

> > --
> > Ren van Lobberegt, The Netherlands.

> > Personal site : http://www.toptown.com/INNERCIRCLE/1846/

> > AMCA web master : http://www.amcaracing.nl/

--
Ren van Lobberegt, The Netherlands.

Personal site : http://www.toptown.com/INNERCIRCLE/1846/

AMCA web master : http://www.amcaracing.nl/

by **Mark C Dod** » Mon, 05 Apr 1999 05:00:00

Wow...too complicated after eating all of those choclate eggs....

I have tried the Thrustmaster FF Wheel on both USB and normal joystick port.
USB definately seems more responsive to me....maybe just wishfull
thinking....

Same with MS Joysticks.

> Comparing USB wheels with gameport wheels is in priciple the same
> as comparing apples with peers. USB wheels use an AD converter which
> has data readily available for reading and can be updated every usec.
> A gameport wheel needs to be timed, which may take 21usec (0ohm) up
> to 1.1msec (100k)depending on the position.
> This slow response has nothing to do with the way of addressing the
> device. A USB wheel which would use the 'old style' timing would
> show the same slowness.
> But now compare these, an USB wheel (with that AD converter) and a
> wheel (with the same AD converter) directly connected to the *ISA* bus.
> For USB, the game has to issue a dataretrieval command through the
> PCI bus to the USB port, which then will take over and go serially tell
> the wheel to serially send the required data. This data then will be
> available to the processor through the PCI bus.
> On ISA, the processor can go get the data from the AD converter. Access
> to the ISA bus will go through the PCI bus but is automaticaly mapped
> onto the ISA bus.
> Definitely the ISA wheel will cause less system load, and will give even
> better response (ISA = 8MHz = 12.5nsec).
> And then the mouse. Yes USB is faster here, but mainly (probably even
> only) because of the higher serial baudrate.
> The higher baudrate is also the reason why USB wheels are surviced
> faster then serial-port wheels.

> > Thw USB port are pretty wll "Bus mastered" and tend to look after
> > themselves with very little if any CPU time dedicated to them. ThHis
> > makes USB devices much more responsive then PCI based ones. Just ry a
> > USB steering wheel or mouse. There is no comparison.

> > > > YES! It's PCI so it polls the controller much faster than ISA.
> > > > The only thing faster would be USB.

> > > Don't think so, USB hangs on PCI and added to that, it is serial.

> > > --
> > > Ren van Lobberegt, The Netherlands.

> > > Personal site : http://www.toptown.com/INNERCIRCLE/1846/

> > > AMCA web master : http://www.amcaracing.nl/

> --
> Ren van Lobberegt, The Netherlands.

> Personal site : http://www.toptown.com/INNERCIRCLE/1846/

> AMCA web master : http://www.amcaracing.nl/

by **René van Lobbere** » Mon, 05 Apr 1999 05:00:00

Hehe...didn't have any...that must be it :)

Mmm, the only TM FF wheel I have seen could only be connected to either
USB or serial port, but memory may be failing me here (only got 64MB).
If you are right about connection to the gameport then :
When connected to the gameport, then either the communications go through
the midi-port, which is slower then USB, or the potmeters have to be
connected to the usual inputs, so that the 'old style' timing has to be
used, which is even a lot slower.

Same with MS Joysticks.
:)

Oh. and nope, I still didn't have me some chocolate eggs :)

> [snipped too complicated stuff :)]

--
Ren van Lobberegt, The Netherlands.

Personal site : http://www.toptown.com/INNERCIRCLE/1846/

AMCA web master : http://www.amcaracing.nl/

by **Mark C Dod** » Tue, 06 Apr 1999 04:00:00

Ya right..it goes into the serial or USB. Duh...
But still the USB seems better than the serial. I set up the bikes very twitchy
under Superbike WC and often get into powerslides that turn quickly into
highsides. With the USB joysticks and wheels I can catch the bike quickly enough
to avoid the pain but with the gameport and serial devices I always end up
inspecting my front wheel from the air.

> > Wow...too complicated after eating all of those choclate eggs....

> Hehe...didn't have any...that must be it :)

> > I have tried the Thrustmaster FF Wheel on both USB and normal joystick port.
> > USB definately seems more responsive to me....maybe just wishfull
> > thinking....

> Mmm, the only TM FF wheel I have seen could only be connected to either
> USB or serial port, but memory may be failing me here (only got 64MB).
> If you are right about connection to the gameport then :
> When connected to the gameport, then either the communications go through
> the midi-port, which is slower then USB, or the potmeters have to be
> connected to the usual inputs, so that the 'old style' timing has to be
> used, which is even a lot slower.

> > Same with MS Joysticks.

> Same with MS Joysticks.
> :)

> Oh. and nope, I still didn't have me some chocolate eggs :)

> > [snipped too complicated stuff :)]

> --
> Ren van Lobberegt, The Netherlands.

> Personal site : http://www.toptown.com/INNERCIRCLE/1846/

> AMCA web master : http://www.amcaracing.nl/

rec.autos.simulators

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