rec.autos.simulators

There seems to be a common misconception floating about.  If NASCAR III
uses the GPL "physics" engine it will drive like GPL.  Wrong!!!  The
physics engine in GPL allows the programmers to "dial in" the physics of
a Yugo.  Therefore if Papyrus did a Yugo simulation based on the GPL
"physics" engine, it would not be as difficult as GPL.

The difficulty of driving a Lotus 47 is based on the physics of driving
a Lotus 47, not the difficulty of the "physics" engine.  Therefore, if
N3 uses the GPL "physics" engine, then it will be as diffficult as
driving a Winston Cup car not a Lotus 47.

That is the beauty of the Papyrus' new "physics" engine.  There, maybe
we should be calling it Papyrus' new physics engine and stop calling it
GPL's engine.  Then maybe people will begin to understand.   Nope....
won't happen, forgot this is r.a.s. <G>

--
**************************** Michael E. Carver *************************
     Upside out, or inside down...False alarm the only game in town.

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=<[ /./.  [-  < ]>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

They haven't done, I'm afraid to tell you.

If you would care to pop over to
http://www.operationsports.com/reviewvault/news.asp

and look at their review of Nascar 2000, you'll see that they confirm
that Nascar 3 will not be using the GPL engine, but with the
improvements they wanted to make on it, there aren't enough PC's which
are quick enough to support it, which really does make a lot of sense
if you step back and think about it. If Papyrus released Nascar 2000
which could only be playe on a Pentium 3 500MHz, with 128MB of RAM and
a Voodoo3, I'm sure we'd all have something unpleasant to say about
it, as you can better your bottom dollar (or pound, as in my case ;)
that most of us don't have systems of anywhere that sort of speed.

It is very possible for them to release a simulator which would
require that. The technology _is_ available to them, but they have to
be fair and release something which isn't so far ahead of its time
that no one will be able to play it.

Who knows, by the time that a sequel becomes available, the computer
industry may have evolutionised far enough to warrant a high
performance physics engine.

I don't agree however that a GPL engine would do anything bad for
Nascar 2000. We were all looking forward to racing Nascars with this
sort of 3D effect, with cars leaving the track in crashes, wheel
spinning individually, depending on the power you try to squeeze
through them, unlike in Nascar 2/99, for example. However, from what I
have heard/seen, there are still some _major_ increases to the Nascar
2 engine which is being used. As the review said, they've gutted the
whole N2 engine.

I hope this offers some light...

Griffin, the Slayer

Griffin, the Slayer

Well, first off, if a NASCAR game is done with the Grand Prix Legends physics
engine, it will NOT be the same exact physics as GPL!  The physics will be
heavily adjusted to suit that of a 3000+ pound stock car with slick tires,
closed wheels, much better suspension and engine, and downforce.  This will
result in a realistic NASCAR sim with not quite the challenge of GPL, but you
can't tell me that it's actually easy to hold a NASCAR on the track!  That's
why I'm wanting a highly advanced realistic 3d physics model to make it feel
like a real stock car!  My $.02

Dan Belcher
Team Racing Unlimited

Steve B.

Remove "edy" from address for email

Don't equate "GPL" with "difficult", the cars in '67 were difficult
ergo a realistic simulation of them is also going to be difficult. Yes
you can argue whether that is a good or a bad thing for a simulation
to follow, but that's another discussion.

I think to an extent NASCAR will be (should be) easier even if
modelled absolutely realistically, although wheelspin would be an
issue to control. The main difference would be that life at the limit
would be pretty tricky, since grip decrease with slip increase is very
sharp. GPL however was difficult to drive at all initially, so I think
"tricky at the limit" wouldn't be a problem.

I would say that it will now take a lot more than N2 to turn me on,
that's sure.

Cheers!
John

I can't imagine why anybody would want to stick with it for more than
a couple of test sessions on each track to begin with. Probably less
in fact...

Griffin, the Slayer

Because it feels so damn good when you get it right<g>.

-don

they have more grip (alot more) only 4 gears (SO WHEELSPIN IS MORE DIFFICULT
TO ACHIEVE) and most of the tracks are only OVAL (no where near as tricky as
the GP tracks - dont forget, NASCAR drivers race eachother - not the track)
SO A NASCAR SIM USING GPL PHYSICS WILL NOT BE THAT DIFIICULT TO DRIVE.

I think the real issue is that certain people (money men) hear the words GPL
and remember a poor selling, difficult racing sim.

and dont get me started on the hardware needed to run 40 cars in GPL.....

pez 2 pence

--Tel

--
Tony Wyss, Editor-in-Chief
Gamers Alliance Sports
www.ga-sports.com
-------------------------------
Network Developer
Gamers Alliance, Inc.
www.gagames.com
-------------------------------
"I'm not an athlete, I'm a baseball player" - John Kruk

Ever driven a real one? I believe with a 700 hp engine, wheel spin is rather
easy. And yes, I have driven a real Winston Cup stock car.

Ever watched a Bristol, Martainsville, or Darlington race?

 >certain people (money men) hear the words GPL

I am surprised that GPL is such a poor selling sim. With the *** of GPL
posts here in this ng, [somewhere nearing 20,000] either it is the greatest
selling of all time or there are just a few people playing it and they "just
don't get it" and have to post about every little thing in that sim.

My question....why would you want a game that is almost
unplayable due to it's difficulty of it AND the strain
that it would put on a normal PC to get it to run smoothly?

     Go easy on the moneymen; not everything's an X-Files outtake.  Besides, we
all know it's the marketing types who are the evil ones!  But as to Papy's
N3/hardware comments, consider the following:
     On my old P200/V2, I could only run 5-6 AI at 8X6 with conservative
graphics options and still get in-race framerates above 30FPS(& then not
always).  It took a jump to a 450 Celery(same V2) to be able to run all 19AI,
and I still can't max out the graphics(10X7, full mirrors, etc.)
     Assume the physics and AI for N3 are basically similar to GPL, which seems
reasonable.  Then add; FF and 3D sound support, much more sophisticated
aerodynamic modeling (based on published comments from Papy folks), and, oh
yeah, 20 more AI while you're at it.  Combine with the competitive pressure for
ever-better graphics coming from the likes of SBK (& RC 99!).
     Don't get me wrong; I definitely see the postponement of N3 as a Bad
Thing, and a gussied-up N2 doesn't interest me too much. (Note the Op.Sports
interview's lack of ANY mention of physics improvements in N2000; mainly eye &
ear candy.  Also check out their review of GPL :-( )  But I HAD wondered how
Papy were going to pack all that into a game that would run on current
hardware.  Guess I'd better start a PIII/V4 fund, pronto.  Deja Vu all over
again.  But hey, maybe I'll finally be able to run full graphics in GP2!

Cheers,

Steve B.

remove "edy" from address for email

--
Tony Wyss, Editor-in-Chief
Gamers Alliance Sports
www.ga-sports.com
-------------------------------
Network Developer
Gamers Alliance, Inc.
www.gagames.com
-------------------------------
"I'm not an athlete, I'm a baseball player" - John Kruk

--
Chuck Kandler  #70
K&S Racing
http://www.fortunecity.com/silverstone/thepits/195
Unarmed & unafraid!