rec.autos.simulators

what you describe indeed excludes all factors that I describe as the
culprits.

An interesting aspect of what you say could be that you describe the issue
as making the car push more, while others seemed to perceive it as making
the
car more lose. Apparently the effect is perceived differently. Maybe finding
the common denominator could be a step in the direction of a solution.

As for my own experience, whenever I personally perceived such a difference
in how the cars drive, I could always trace it back to either the PC needing
more horsepower (more free and at the right time available CPU cycles for
the main driving module of the sim), or the connection being inferior. I've
come to think that sometimes the latter can cause the former, too.

I'd hazard a guess the culprits in my case were additional chores created by
being online which take CPU cycles away from the processing of the main
module of the simulation.

I was sometimes able improve the situation by reducing resolution or detail,
by making the connection run smoother, or by strictly avoiding ressource
conflicts. In those situations where this didn't help, the next upgrade took
care of the problem, either something that improved the CPU cycles available
to the sim, or a better connection.

There's actually a third factor that from time to time played a role - I
sometimes was just more nervous online, and tended to overcook it a little
more than offline. But that, of course, is a purely personaly experience ;-)

Achim

...

Achim

Just one thing, and I guess my post was a bit fuzzy, online my car seems
to get a little bit more front end grip, making it slightly looser, so
I'll get in line with the rest of the guys who sees a difference :-),
but it feels like it's the front end getting more grip as opposed to the
rear end losing grip as it's like I can brake slightly later and still
get turned into the corner, at BullRun I'm about .5 seconds faster
online than I've ever been offline, but that extra grip could just be
the "feel" of the car of course

It's really weird this, some people sees this difference, and some
don't, one of the fastest guys back on TEN, Jure from BHMS, claimed he
never saw any difference at all if memory serves me right, he raced from
Europe on an analogue dial-up connection

And yes, having a system with low FPS will make your car feel totally
different than the same system with a smooth framerate, no question,
this was very noticeable at Bristol running with a full pack of cars,
damn fishbowl, I hate that track

Beers and cheers
(uncle) Goy

http://www.theuspits.com
http://www.teammirage.com

"Animation isn't the illusion of life; it is life"
--Chuck Jones (1912-2002)--

I've also sometimes wondered whether sim programmers try to make up for the
probs an online connection brings about by making the driving a little
easier, because I was surprised by times I had achieved online.

But I've come to think that it's either that the laptime measurement online
isn't perfect, or that I simply drive differently, concentrating more on
keeping it on the track and smooth, which as you will agree usually leads to
better laptimes everywhere.

Anyway, maybe some companies would actually do that, but Papy?

Achim

"Joachim Trensz">

   I never ran Hawaii much, but when I did, it felt like it was very
slick...almost like water was flooding the track and pushing the car.  But
as Papyrus progressed this feeling has greatly deminished, by N3 racing
online in the TPTCC league was very close to feeling offline.  And like Goy
I also went faster online than off, but I usually had some sort of
Aerotweeked damage that increased my  front downforce.(most of my fast laps
were set with pushed in noses)
  Other sims feel off slightly when online, but "I" don't feel it much
anymore with Papyrus sims.  However, I'm sure the guys who know what they
are doing DO feel the difference.
dave henrie

In NHeat this problem is so big that some people have dropped out of the
TPTCC league, they're running NHeat with the DTM mod these days, because
the setup they spent hours developing was completely useless when they
came to race online, so it does seem that Papy has managed to contain
this problem better than some of the others, while for others in the
league this seems to be less of a problem, but they too report this, if
to a lesser extent, and there's some experienced racers in both camps
there too

Beers and cheers
(uncle) Goy

http://www.theuspits.com
http://www.teammirage.com

"Animation isn't the illusion of life; it is life"
--Chuck Jones (1912-2002)--

my comments refer exclusively to Papy products. And to Monster Truck Racing
1, which also felt the same online and offline! <g>

Achim