rec.autos.simulators

by **Tom Pabs** » Thu, 11 Apr 2002 12:47:50

Could somebody running in N2K2 leagues shed some light on these setups for
me(us)?

At first, I thought the selection of "Fast, Intermediate and Easy" for the
Fixed setups (Race Host selection screen) would choose setups the same as
those offered as the "default" offline setups of the same nomenclature. I
don't think they are....since they don't seem to behave the same...although
I have only "tested" a couple of these. Are they the same?

If not.....is there a place where the online "fixed" setups can be
downloaded so one can test with them...without having to race online or find
races with fixed setups...and the right track (you want to test on)? Or sit
online and copy each setup to a yellow-pad by hand! That can be tedious.

Of the three choices....which seem to be the best for stability and
competitive speeds....for novice to intermediate sim drivers?

"Mucho gracias"....in advance....for the information.

Regards,

Tom

by **Biz** » Thu, 11 Apr 2002 13:26:10

From what I understand, the fixed setup is chosen as a setup during the host's configuration of the
race. So it can be any setup the host chooses from his server setups. If the host is not using the
one of the default setups, you are at their mercy as this is the setup that is downlaoded for that
race to your machine.
--
Biz

"Don't touch that please, your primitive intellect wouldn't understand
alloys and compositions and,......things with molecular structures,....and
the....." - Ash

by **Tom Pabs** » Thu, 11 Apr 2002 13:34:54

Biz...

Thanks for the info. I thought that's the way it worked as well. But
something's amiss with that idea if you can load the "fixed" setup for
"fast".....online...and it behaves dramatically different than the "fast"
offline setup. I did this the other night...on my own server so I could
control the practice session.....set weather and so forth. The online
version of "fast" was nearly a second slower at Texas than the offline
version...which was not only faster but much more stable exiting the turns.
I could hold the car on the bottom easier.....exit with an earlier
throttle....you name it. I checked to make sure I had not missed something
stupid like two different track/weather settings....they were the same. I
assumed that my "understanding" of how the fixed setups worked in online
N2K2 was incorrect. The behavior of the car was substantially different
between the two setups.

Tom

host's configuration of the
the host is not using the
that is downlaoded for that

> race to your machine.
> --
> Biz

> "Don't touch that please, your primitive intellect wouldn't understand
> alloys and compositions and,......things with molecular structures,....and
> the....." - Ash

> > Could somebody running in N2K2 leagues shed some light on these setups
for
> > me(us)?

> > At first, I thought the selection of "Fast, Intermediate and Easy" for
the
> > Fixed setups (Race Host selection screen) would choose setups the same
as
> > those offered as the "default" offline setups of the same nomenclature.
I
> > don't think they are....since they don't seem to behave the
same...although
> > I have only "tested" a couple of these. Are they the same?

> > If not.....is there a place where the online "fixed" setups can be
> > downloaded so one can test with them...without having to race online or
find
> > races with fixed setups...and the right track (you want to test on)? Or
sit
> > online and copy each setup to a yellow-pad by hand! That can be
tedious.

> > Of the three choices....which seem to be the best for stability and
> > competitive speeds....for novice to intermediate sim drivers?

> > "Mucho gracias"....in advance....for the information.

> > Regards,

> > Tom

by **John Pancoas** » Thu, 11 Apr 2002 14:01:01

While never noticing it myself, many have said the same thing about
personal, open setups, so I think it's part of the game, not just fixed
setups.

-John

> Biz...

> Thanks for the info. I thought that's the way it worked as well. But
> something's amiss with that idea if you can load the "fixed" setup for
> "fast".....online...and it behaves dramatically different than the "fast"
> offline setup. I did this the other night...on my own server so I could
> control the practice session.....set weather and so forth. The online
> version of "fast" was nearly a second slower at Texas than the offline
> version...which was not only faster but much more stable exiting the
turns.
> I could hold the car on the bottom easier.....exit with an earlier
> throttle....you name it. I checked to make sure I had not missed
something
> stupid like two different track/weather settings....they were the same. I
> assumed that my "understanding" of how the fixed setups worked in online
> N2K2 was incorrect. The behavior of the car was substantially different
> between the two setups.

> Tom

> > From what I understand, the fixed setup is chosen as a setup during the
> host's configuration of the
> > race. So it can be any setup the host chooses from his server setups.
If
> the host is not using the
> > one of the default setups, you are at their mercy as this is the setup
> that is downlaoded for that
> > race to your machine.
> > --
> > Biz

> > "Don't touch that please, your primitive intellect wouldn't understand
> > alloys and compositions and,......things with molecular
structures,....and
> > the....." - Ash

> > > Could somebody running in N2K2 leagues shed some light on these setups
> for
> > > me(us)?

> > > At first, I thought the selection of "Fast, Intermediate and Easy" for
> the
> > > Fixed setups (Race Host selection screen) would choose setups the same
> as
> > > those offered as the "default" offline setups of the same
nomenclature.
> I
> > > don't think they are....since they don't seem to behave the
> same...although
> > > I have only "tested" a couple of these. Are they the same?

> > > If not.....is there a place where the online "fixed" setups can be
> > > downloaded so one can test with them...without having to race online
or
> find
> > > races with fixed setups...and the right track (you want to test on)?
Or
> sit
> > > online and copy each setup to a yellow-pad by hand! That can be
> tedious.

> > > Of the three choices....which seem to be the best for stability and
> > > competitive speeds....for novice to intermediate sim drivers?

> > > "Mucho gracias"....in advance....for the information.

> > > Regards,

> > > Tom

by **<b..** » Thu, 11 Apr 2002 15:43:45

Yeah it is pretty f***d up. It has been since N2.
Offline and Online using the same setup is completely different.
No just fixed, but any setup.... they handle different offline
and the speeds are not the same.

Don't ask me why...ask Papy.

says...

by **MadDAW** » Thu, 11 Apr 2002 19:23:42

Its not just Papy just about every game I have made the effort to do a
direct compasion on has this same issue. Actualy Papy is one of the better
ones. The worse for it seems to be the Ratbag games.

MadDAWG

by **Lawman_027** » Thu, 11 Apr 2002 21:37:40

Tom:

It's funny that you post about this now. I asked my league admin the
other day this very same question.

I'll practice for hours at a given track and then go to the race and
it's like getting into someone else's car for the first time. He says
that he uses the default "fast" setup on his computer for our league
races. Well, it ain't the same fast setup that I've been using! WTF?

I think your right, that you have to copy the setup by hand and try it
that way. Although, I wonder.....can you export a setup from an online
race? HMMMMMM........

Good Luck!

Lawman

by **Tom Pabs** » Thu, 11 Apr 2002 21:45:26

Wow......now that you guys are saying this....I remember this being an
"issue" way back in the TEN days. I had forgotten that. I also guess I
thought that we had moved passed that era. Guess not.

Next question then....has anyone figured out the correlation between the
"variance" of the online and offline setup. In other words, is it
consistent: Will a neutral exit setup then push....or be
tight....consistently to the same degree. Is there a correlation/consistent
variance? Has anyone done a study? If there is, then it negates the
problem......simply requiring one to have an online/offline setup adjustment
(or create two sets of the same setup).

I'd also be curious as to the *correct* explanation for why this happens?
But....just curious.

Tom

> Biz...

> Thanks for the info. I thought that's the way it worked as well. But
> something's amiss with that idea if you can load the "fixed" setup for
> "fast".....online...and it behaves dramatically different than the "fast"
> offline setup. I did this the other night...on my own server so I could
> control the practice session.....set weather and so forth. The online
> version of "fast" was nearly a second slower at Texas than the offline
> version...which was not only faster but much more stable exiting the
turns.
> I could hold the car on the bottom easier.....exit with an earlier
> throttle....you name it. I checked to make sure I had not missed
something
> stupid like two different track/weather settings....they were the same. I
> assumed that my "understanding" of how the fixed setups worked in online
> N2K2 was incorrect. The behavior of the car was substantially different
> between the two setups.

> Tom

> > From what I understand, the fixed setup is chosen as a setup during the
> host's configuration of the
> > race. So it can be any setup the host chooses from his server setups.
If
> the host is not using the
> > one of the default setups, you are at their mercy as this is the setup
> that is downlaoded for that
> > race to your machine.
> > --
> > Biz

> > "Don't touch that please, your primitive intellect wouldn't understand
> > alloys and compositions and,......things with molecular
structures,....and
> > the....." - Ash

> > > Could somebody running in N2K2 leagues shed some light on these setups
> for
> > > me(us)?

> > > At first, I thought the selection of "Fast, Intermediate and Easy" for
> the
> > > Fixed setups (Race Host selection screen) would choose setups the same
> as
> > > those offered as the "default" offline setups of the same
nomenclature.
> I
> > > don't think they are....since they don't seem to behave the
> same...although
> > > I have only "tested" a couple of these. Are they the same?

> > > If not.....is there a place where the online "fixed" setups can be
> > > downloaded so one can test with them...without having to race online
or
> find
> > > races with fixed setups...and the right track (you want to test on)?
Or
> sit
> > > online and copy each setup to a yellow-pad by hand! That can be
> tedious.

> > > Of the three choices....which seem to be the best for stability and
> > > competitive speeds....for novice to intermediate sim drivers?

> > > "Mucho gracias"....in advance....for the information.

> > > Regards,

> > > Tom

by **Gerald Moo** » Thu, 11 Apr 2002 22:05:53

I've never really noticed this, but then again, I am always
tweaking...

I will try to verify this as soon as I get the chance. Do you recall
what weather settings you were using?

I will hazard a guess that it has something to do with updates &
timing not being the same in online/offline, rather than the
cars/physics being different.

Gerald

> Biz...

> Thanks for the info. I thought that's the way it worked as well. But
> something's amiss with that idea if you can load the "fixed" setup for
> "fast".....online...and it behaves dramatically different than the "fast"
> offline setup. I did this the other night...on my own server so I could
> control the practice session.....set weather and so forth. The online
> version of "fast" was nearly a second slower at Texas than the offline
> version...which was not only faster but much more stable exiting the turns.
> I could hold the car on the bottom easier.....exit with an earlier
> throttle....you name it. I checked to make sure I had not missed something
> stupid like two different track/weather settings....they were the same. I
> assumed that my "understanding" of how the fixed setups worked in online
> N2K2 was incorrect. The behavior of the car was substantially different
> between the two setups.

> Tom

> > From what I understand, the fixed setup is chosen as a setup during the
> host's configuration of the
> > race. So it can be any setup the host chooses from his server setups. If
> the host is not using the
> > one of the default setups, you are at their mercy as this is the setup
> that is downlaoded for that
> > race to your machine.
> > --
> > Biz

> > "Don't touch that please, your primitive intellect wouldn't understand
> > alloys and compositions and,......things with molecular structures,....and
> > the....." - Ash

> > > Could somebody running in N2K2 leagues shed some light on these setups
> for
> > > me(us)?

> > > At first, I thought the selection of "Fast, Intermediate and Easy" for
> the
> > > Fixed setups (Race Host selection screen) would choose setups the same
> as
> > > those offered as the "default" offline setups of the same nomenclature.
> I
> > > don't think they are....since they don't seem to behave the
> same...although
> > > I have only "tested" a couple of these. Are they the same?

> > > If not.....is there a place where the online "fixed" setups can be
> > > downloaded so one can test with them...without having to race online or
> find
> > > races with fixed setups...and the right track (you want to test on)? Or
> sit
> > > online and copy each setup to a yellow-pad by hand! That can be
> tedious.

> > > Of the three choices....which seem to be the best for stability and
> > > competitive speeds....for novice to intermediate sim drivers?

> > > "Mucho gracias"....in advance....for the information.

> > > Regards,

> > > Tom

by **Uncle Feste** » Thu, 11 Apr 2002 22:38:57

> Although, I wonder.....can you export a setup from an online
> race? HMMMMMM........

If nothing else, use the PrintScreen key & transcribe later at your leisure.

--

Fester

"There's no way to rule innocent men. The only power any government has
is the power to crack down on criminals. Well, when there aren't enough
criminals, one makes them. One declares so many things to be a crime
that it becomes impossible for men to live without breaking laws."

--Ayn Rand, Atlas Shrugged

by **MadDAW** » Thu, 11 Apr 2002 22:44:00

Well this is what was explained to me for the Ratbag games by one of the
programmers.

In the DTR games the physics updates are tied to the frame rate. The physics
are updated 57 times a second. So if you are running 57 fps then you would
have a physic update every new frame. If your running 28 fps then you would
get 2 updates per frame. Now this probably wouldn't be too bad if frame rate
is steady but we all know how things like track location, cars drawn, etc
can all effect frame rate. Well another thing that we don't think about
effecting system performance is the overhead for multiplayer. Not only the
net code, but hardware as well. So in this case this effects the frame rate
which in turn effects physics updates, which is why the setups seamed to
work different.

Now I have no idea how Papy stuff works, but I think the root cause is still
the same. The extra overhead of the multiplayer code is something that is
not run in a offline game. IMO you can overload a system much easier than
most people think. Just because the frame rate is holding above 30fps
doesn't mean you have enough power to run the game correctly. I did some
playing around back in N4 and again IMO the AI seemed much better with the
lesser number of them I had. The less AI on the track, the less for the
computer to keep track of. I'm not sure is online is a slow down or speed up
type of problem to be honest. It could very well be that online is more of a
speed up than a slow down. I have always wondered why GPL had a cap of
36fps. I wonder if this cap was built in to keep the graphics from using up
every clock cycle it could have so that there was some reserve left.

MadDAWG

by **Goy Larse** » Thu, 11 Apr 2002 22:45:40

> Wow......now that you guys are saying this....I remember this being an
> "issue" way back in the TEN days. I had forgotten that. I also guess I
> thought that we had moved passed that era. Guess not.

> Next question then....has anyone figured out the correlation between the
> "variance" of the online and offline setup. In other words, is it
> consistent: Will a neutral exit setup then push....or be
> tight....consistently to the same degree. Is there a correlation/consistent
> variance? Has anyone done a study? If there is, then it negates the
> problem......simply requiring one to have an online/offline setup adjustment
> (or create two sets of the same setup).

> I'd also be curious as to the *correct* explanation for why this happens?
> But....just curious.

I have too limited time with N4/2002 to give any sort of input, but in
N2 (TEN) and N3 (TPTCC) I found my cars to have a tad more oversteer, to
the point where I usually ended up with faster laptimes online than I
did offline as I had better tire wear as well as being forced to be
somewhat cautious in the early laps

For instance, my best lap at BullRun was about .5 seconds faster online
vs offline, no matter how much I tested I couldn't find that half
second, online I could reel off 5 laps in a row within .1 or .2 seconds
of that time, it was like the front end had more grip somehow and I
couldn't adjust my setup to get quite the same "feel" offline

Pretty much the same story at all the road courses for me, prolly at the
ovals too but I suck too much to notice :-)

Beers and cheers
(uncle) Goy

"The Pits" http://www.theuspits.com/

"Animation isn't the illusion of life; it is life"
--Chuck Jones (1912-2002)--

by **Isotrip** » Thu, 11 Apr 2002 23:00:43

You can save any "Fixed" setup to your local hard-drive for later
use/viewing.

HTH

- Isotrip?

> > Although, I wonder.....can you export a setup from an online
> > race? HMMMMMM........

> If nothing else, use the PrintScreen key & transcribe later at your

leisure.

by **Dave Henri** » Thu, 11 Apr 2002 23:21:59

"MadDAWG" > Its not just Papy just about every game I have made the effort
to do a
Our TPTCC league uses the DTM mod this year for nascar heat. Online is
waay different than off. One of the smart guys figured out if you lay down
the spoiler and up the tire pressures a-lot you can simulate what the online
grip levels are. But I think we've found the BEST way to test a setup for
an online race is to hold ONline practice sessions.
dave henrie

by **Joachim Trens** » Fri, 12 Apr 2002 01:23:44

I don't think any setups behaves differently online from offline, unless
online your machine is slower because of the additional data transmission
work and thus changes the behaviour of the car through delayed reactions and
physics calculations. Pretty much what Maddawg explains a few messages
further up. It's not the setup or game, it's that your system is too slow to
keep up with the online data transmissions tasks without getting a little
sluggish in the physics calculation side.

The one difference that exists is that online, the weather is usually set to
'realistic', which is likely to create weather conditions much different
from the one's one usually sets offline.

And under different weather conditions, the same setup indeed feels
different. Just like in a real car.

Achim

> Biz...

> Thanks for the info. I thought that's the way it worked as well. But
> something's amiss with that idea if you can load the "fixed" setup for
> "fast".....online...and it behaves dramatically different than the "fast"
> offline setup. I did this the other night...on my own server so I could
> control the practice session.....set weather and so forth. The online
> version of "fast" was nearly a second slower at Texas than the offline
> version...which was not only faster but much more stable exiting the
turns.
> I could hold the car on the bottom easier.....exit with an earlier
> throttle....you name it. I checked to make sure I had not missed
something
> stupid like two different track/weather settings....they were the same. I
> assumed that my "understanding" of how the fixed setups worked in online
> N2K2 was incorrect. The behavior of the car was substantially different
> between the two setups.

> Tom

> > From what I understand, the fixed setup is chosen as a setup during the
> host's configuration of the
> > race. So it can be any setup the host chooses from his server setups.
If
> the host is not using the
> > one of the default setups, you are at their mercy as this is the setup
> that is downlaoded for that
> > race to your machine.
> > --
> > Biz

> > "Don't touch that please, your primitive intellect wouldn't understand
> > alloys and compositions and,......things with molecular
structures,....and
> > the....." - Ash

> > > Could somebody running in N2K2 leagues shed some light on these setups
> for
> > > me(us)?

> > > At first, I thought the selection of "Fast, Intermediate and Easy" for
> the
> > > Fixed setups (Race Host selection screen) would choose setups the same
> as
> > > those offered as the "default" offline setups of the same
nomenclature.
> I
> > > don't think they are....since they don't seem to behave the
> same...although
> > > I have only "tested" a couple of these. Are they the same?

> > > If not.....is there a place where the online "fixed" setups can be
> > > downloaded so one can test with them...without having to race online
or
> find
> > > races with fixed setups...and the right track (you want to test on)?
Or
> sit
> > > online and copy each setup to a yellow-pad by hand! That can be
> tedious.

> > > Of the three choices....which seem to be the best for stability and
> > > competitive speeds....for novice to intermediate sim drivers?

> > > "Mucho gracias"....in advance....for the information.

> > > Regards,

> > > Tom

rec.autos.simulators

N2K2 "Fixed" Online Setups

N2K2 "Fixed" Online Setups

N2K2 "Fixed" Online Setups

N2K2 "Fixed" Online Setups

N2K2 "Fixed" Online Setups

N2K2 "Fixed" Online Setups

N2K2 "Fixed" Online Setups

N2K2 "Fixed" Online Setups

N2K2 "Fixed" Online Setups

N2K2 "Fixed" Online Setups

N2K2 "Fixed" Online Setups

N2K2 "Fixed" Online Setups

N2K2 "Fixed" Online Setups

N2K2 "Fixed" Online Setups

N2K2 "Fixed" Online Setups

N2K2 "Fixed" Online Setups