rec.autos.simulators

Geforce 3 pc's maybe slower than XBOX !

Loosa

Geforce 3 pc's maybe slower than XBOX !

by Loosa » Sat, 03 Mar 2001 18:06:59

An article I read in Wired magazine seems to imply that those $600 Geforce 3
videocards will not  make any currently available PC's as fast as the XBOX. It
would seem that if you want the fastest *** rig possible this year and
probably part of 2002 you will have to buy an XBOX.

"The XGPU will be able to animate 125 million polygons per second. NVidia's
current top chip, the GeForce 2 Ultra, maxes out at 31 million polygons per
second, and Xbox-like performance isn't likely to happen on a PC any time soon.
"

"There's absolutely no way you could render 125 million polygons a second
across an AGP bus," said Tony Tomasi, director of product marketing at nVidia.
"The entire architecture of the XGPU is built around unified architecture where
it shares memory with the processor, as opposed to shuttling it across a bus.
So that changes the way the whole thing works."

No doubt PC's will surpass the XBOX and Playstation 2( 66 to 75  million
polygons per second) somtime next year, but it would seem that the consoles
will not be so easily dismissed by newer PC hardware as some have expected.

Sjoerd de Roes

Geforce 3 pc's maybe slower than XBOX !

by Sjoerd de Roes » Sat, 03 Mar 2001 19:05:46


>An article I read in Wired magazine seems to imply that those $600 Geforce
3
>videocards will not  make any currently available PC's as fast as the XBOX.
It
>would seem that if you want the fastest *** rig possible this year and
>probably part of 2002 you will have to buy an XBOX.

>"The XGPU will be able to animate 125 million polygons per second. NVidia's
>current top chip, the GeForce 2 Ultra, maxes out at 31 million polygons per
>second, and Xbox-like performance isn't likely to happen on a PC any time
soon.
>"

>"There's absolutely no way you could render 125 million polygons a second
>across an AGP bus," said Tony Tomasi, director of product marketing at
nVidia.
>"The entire architecture of the XGPU is built around unified architecture
where
>it shares memory with the processor, as opposed to shuttling it across a
bus.
>So that changes the way the whole thing works."

>No doubt PC's will surpass the XBOX and Playstation 2( 66 to 75  million
>polygons per second) somtime next year, but it would seem that the consoles
>will not be so easily dismissed by newer PC hardware as some have expected.

In theory it could do more polygons. So can the ps2. I highly doubt any
x-box game does more than 20 million polygons in it's first year.

Sjoerd

Jon Wille

Geforce 3 pc's maybe slower than XBOX !

by Jon Wille » Sat, 03 Mar 2001 22:06:43

Here's a link to the article you probably read:

  <http://www.racesimcentral.net/,1282,41849,00.html>

I'm not sure why Tony is comparing the Xbox's shared memory to the AGP
bus.  The Xbox has 64 MB total.  The GeForce3 has 64 MB onboard, so
all the track textures and sponsorship logos are in the card's memory.


>An article I read in Wired magazine seems to imply that those $600 Geforce 3
>videocards will not  make any currently available PC's as fast as the XBOX. It
>would seem that if you want the fastest *** rig possible this year and
>probably part of 2002 you will have to buy an XBOX.

[...]

--

Simon Brow

Geforce 3 pc's maybe slower than XBOX !

by Simon Brow » Sat, 03 Mar 2001 23:02:31

The X-Box is as likely to ever manage 125 million polygons per second, as my
old V3 was likely to manage the 8 million it said on the box.  These numbers
are all best case scenarios.

This 125 million polygons per second will be without texture mapping,
without z-buffering, without shading, in 16-bit colour only, in very low res
and using entirely static (from frame to frame) geometry.  In a real game
I'd be surprised to see it manage more than 25-30 million.

Anyway, the point of the quote, that the X-Box will out-perform a GeForce 3
(same hardware), is correct.  X-Box does have a slower CPU though, compared
with what most *** PC's will be running at the time of the X-Box's
launch.  I've got a 650 now, which is more or less what the X-Box will have,
but by October lots of PC's, including mine will have >1000.  X-Box also has
very little RAM.  Some PC games already struggle with 64 mb, and that's what
the X-Box has.

Plus all X-Box games will be aimed at kids, so if you're into games with
depth which require thought, the PC will always be best.


expected.

Simon Brow

Geforce 3 pc's maybe slower than XBOX !

by Simon Brow » Sun, 04 Mar 2001 07:09:28

Ok, the majority then.  You'd have to admit the PC delivers a different type
of game.

You'll never see a sim as serious as GPL, N4 or WSC on a console, or an FPS
like Project IGI, Thief 1 + 2, System Shock 2, Delta Force series etc.


> On Fri, 02 Mar 2001 14:02:31 GMT, "Simon Brown"

> >Plus all X-Box games will be aimed at kids, so if you're into games with
> >depth which require thought, the PC will always be best.

> Simon, all console games aren't aimed at kids.

Jenera

Geforce 3 pc's maybe slower than XBOX !

by Jenera » Sun, 04 Mar 2001 07:53:23

There is no doubt that the X-Box will outperform the PC. You have to
remember that the X-Box doesn't have any OS overhead (all OS is via ROM), no
PCI bus, no AGP bus and true 32-bit access to EVERYTHING! Most of us still
use Win9x and we forget that a lot of the code is 16-bit and our CPU spends
a lot of its time 'thunking'. Windows 2000 doesn't have any 16-bit code but
it's underlying security and sometimes, poor drivers, cause it to be a tad
slower than Win9x. Another advantage is all software will be optimized for
one set of hardware. No need for a programmer to add branches for non-MMX,
MMX, SSE, 3DNow, etc.. Every feature in the unit will be at the programmer's
disposal. The other thing most people forget is that for the moment, ALL
X-Box games will be 640x480. We're used to 1024x768 on our PC's and the
lower resolution will allow faster games.  It will be a while before PC's
begin to surpass the X-Box and then we'll still have to wait for the
software to catch up.

As a long time PC gamer, I'm a little disappointed. Mainly because PC ***
is becoming very expensive and fewer and fewer developers are devoting
resources to PC development. It also doesn't help when Microsoft can release
a kick ass *** system for $300 and for us to buy the same video card for
our PC's will cost $400-500 minimum. For the first time since my Super
Nintendo, I might be tempted to pick up a *** console. Then again...Nah.

Michael M


Jagg

Geforce 3 pc's maybe slower than XBOX !

by Jagg » Sun, 04 Mar 2001 07:57:13

On Fri, 02 Mar 2001 22:09:28 GMT, "Simon Brown"


>You'll never see a sim as serious as GPL, N4 or WSC

WSC is going to be on the PS2.
Kirk Hous

Geforce 3 pc's maybe slower than XBOX !

by Kirk Hous » Sun, 04 Mar 2001 10:47:01

The XBox will be cheap because Microsoft can afford to lose money on the
Console because it makes it's money from royalties on games sold.  That's
why you will have to buy a remote to get the dvd working, they won't make
any royalties on DVD rentals :)  Xbox will run at 640X480 but it'll be
FSAAed to get rid of the jaggies.

ps.  When the XBox is released late this year I bet the PC will be at least
as fast if not faster (even if they will cost 7X more :p)

pps.  I bet Xbox games will cost an arm and a leg compared to the PC
version.


> There is no doubt that the X-Box will outperform the PC. You have to
> remember that the X-Box doesn't have any OS overhead (all OS is via ROM),
no
> PCI bus, no AGP bus and true 32-bit access to EVERYTHING! Most of us still
> use Win9x and we forget that a lot of the code is 16-bit and our CPU
spends
> a lot of its time 'thunking'. Windows 2000 doesn't have any 16-bit code
but
> it's underlying security and sometimes, poor drivers, cause it to be a tad
> slower than Win9x. Another advantage is all software will be optimized for
> one set of hardware. No need for a programmer to add branches for non-MMX,
> MMX, SSE, 3DNow, etc.. Every feature in the unit will be at the
programmer's
> disposal. The other thing most people forget is that for the moment, ALL
> X-Box games will be 640x480. We're used to 1024x768 on our PC's and the
> lower resolution will allow faster games.  It will be a while before PC's
> begin to surpass the X-Box and then we'll still have to wait for the
> software to catch up.

> As a long time PC gamer, I'm a little disappointed. Mainly because PC
***
> is becoming very expensive and fewer and fewer developers are devoting
> resources to PC development. It also doesn't help when Microsoft can
release
> a kick ass *** system for $300 and for us to buy the same video card
for
> our PC's will cost $400-500 minimum. For the first time since my Super
> Nintendo, I might be tempted to pick up a *** console. Then
again...Nah.

> Michael M



> > The X-Box is as likely to ever manage 125 million polygons per second,
as
> my
> > old V3 was likely to manage the 8 million it said on the box.  These
> numbers
> > are all best case scenarios.

> > This 125 million polygons per second will be without texture mapping,
> > without z-buffering, without shading, in 16-bit colour only, in very low
> res
> > and using entirely static (from frame to frame) geometry.  In a real
game
> > I'd be surprised to see it manage more than 25-30 million.

> > Anyway, the point of the quote, that the X-Box will out-perform a
GeForce
> 3
> > (same hardware), is correct.  X-Box does have a slower CPU though,
> compared
> > with what most *** PC's will be running at the time of the X-Box's
> > launch.  I've got a 650 now, which is more or less what the X-Box will
> have,
> > but by October lots of PC's, including mine will have >1000.  X-Box also
> has
> > very little RAM.  Some PC games already struggle with 64 mb, and that's
> what
> > the X-Box has.

> > Plus all X-Box games will be aimed at kids, so if you're into games with
> > depth which require thought, the PC will always be best.

Simon Brow

Geforce 3 pc's maybe slower than XBOX !

by Simon Brow » Mon, 05 Mar 2001 00:04:35

We'll see.


> On Fri, 02 Mar 2001 22:09:28 GMT, "Simon Brown"

> WSC is going to be on the PS2.

Simon Brow

Geforce 3 pc's maybe slower than XBOX !

by Simon Brow » Mon, 05 Mar 2001 00:12:05

Like I said, the X-Box will outperform a PC with a GF3.


Jagg

Geforce 3 pc's maybe slower than XBOX !

by Jagg » Mon, 05 Mar 2001 02:34:03

On Sat, 03 Mar 2001 15:12:05 GMT, "Simon Brown"


>Like I said, the X-Box will outperform a PC with a GF3.

Remains to be seen.
Joe6

Geforce 3 pc's maybe slower than XBOX !

by Joe6 » Mon, 05 Mar 2001 03:59:35


>Ok, the majority then.

Not really. The traditional target market for console games is 16-32
year old males.

Joe McGinn
_____________________
Radical Entertainment

Joe6

Geforce 3 pc's maybe slower than XBOX !

by Joe6 » Mon, 05 Mar 2001 04:04:07


>ps.  When the XBox is released late this year I bet the PC will be at least
>as fast if not faster (even if they will cost 7X more :p)

In theory, yes. But in practice you won't believe the difference it
makes being able to optimize for one specific hardware target. In a
very real sense the XBox is twice as fast as a PC with the same amount
of processing/graphical power.

A lot of xbox games won't have PC versions. The economics of console
development are much more appealing.

Joe McGinn
_____________________
Radical Entertainment

Dave Henri

Geforce 3 pc's maybe slower than XBOX !

by Dave Henri » Mon, 05 Mar 2001 05:34:58

  do some fancy dejuVu/Google search for xbox topics from last year.
There Mr. Prognosticator(yours truly) predicted the demise of computer
*** due to the Xbox.
  pc's will continue but they will be like poor second cousins to the Stars.
dave henrie

Jagg

Geforce 3 pc's maybe slower than XBOX !

by Jagg » Mon, 05 Mar 2001 09:44:40



Remains to be seen.


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