I've noticed that only the human opponents can be black flagged during
pace laps in NCR2. Like when I qualify first and let the guy behind me
overtake, when we go green he will not do a stop/go penalty.
BTW, I got NCR2 and ICR2 bundeled together for 30 UPK which was rather
smart, in *** Megastore...
TkT
On Mon, 06 Jan 1997 18:12:49 +0000, Tekno Tom
(That's not to say that we always do the right thing with the AI cars
and flags, but in this case, our behavior does actually match the
behavior of timing & scoring at a Winston Cup event...)
---Jim Sokoloff, Papyrus
> >I've noticed that only the human opponents can be black flagged during
> >pace laps in NCR2. Like when I qualify first and let the guy behind me
> >overtake, when we go green he will not do a stop/go penalty.
> >BTW, I got NCR2 and ICR2 bundeled together for 30 UPK which was rather
> >smart, in *** Megastore...
> >TkT
> This makes sense... imagine if they COULD be black flagged. All you
> would have to do is let yourself fall from the front of the grid
> to the back during a pace lap and ALL the other cars would incur
> a black flag! The only way around this (short of some very smart
> AI routines to determine whether cars in a pace procession are
> liable for black flags) would be to force all computer cars
> following a human in a pace procession to slow up with him, which
> would look pretty ridiculous - especially if you were to come to
> a complete halt!
> Fraser
Also in REAL winston cup, if you pass on the inside BEFORE the start/finish
line you will be black flagged. NASCAR1 & NASCAR2 missed this one.
--
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Payton W. Snider II
homepage: http://www.aonline.com/~sniderp
Thought of the day:
A goal is a dream with a deadline.
> That is correct. In real WCup racing, if you gave up your position in
> the same way, the car behind you would not be black flagged...
> (Drivers are free to voluntarily give up their position.)
> (That's not to say that we always do the right thing with the AI cars
> and flags, but in this case, our behavior does actually match the
> behavior of timing & scoring at a Winston Cup event...)
> ---Jim Sokoloff, Papyrus
On 8 Jan 1997 05:41:37 GMT, "Payton W. Snider II"
I tend to think that the de facto rule is what you've stated above,
though the rulebook seems to suggest otherwise for restarts.
And you are correct, we do not enforce the distinction between passing
on the left and the right.
---Jim Sokoloff, Papyrus
This makes sense... imagine if they COULD be black flagged. All you
would have to do is let yourself fall from the front of the grid
to the back during a pace lap and ALL the other cars would incur
a black flag! The only way around this (short of some very smart
AI routines to determine whether cars in a pace procession are
liable for black flags) would be to force all computer cars
following a human in a pace procession to slow up with him, which
would look pretty ridiculous - especially if you were to come to
a complete halt!
Fraser
Just another one of those simple things to implement that got
overlooked. I think NCR6 is scheduled to have this.
David Martin
> On 8 Jan 1997 05:41:37 GMT, "Payton W. Snider II"
> >Also in REAL winston cup, if you pass on the inside BEFORE the start/finish
> >line you will be black flagged. NASCAR1 & NASCAR2 missed this one.
> That was always my understanding of the rule as well, but in carefully
> reading the 1996 rulebook, it appears that this is explicitly stated
> for the initial start of the race (to begin lap 1), but the wording
> for a restart was something to the effect of "racing shall resume
> immediately upon display of the green flag." (I don't have a rulebook
> at home)
> I tend to think that the de facto rule is what you've stated above,
> though the rulebook seems to suggest otherwise for restarts.
> And you are correct, we do not enforce the distinction between passing
> on the left and the right.
> ---Jim Sokoloff, Papyrus
I think we would all agree that it would be hard for any software
company to keep up with the changing rules of a sport that they are
simulating, however, rules are made to prevent unfair advantages given
to any particular participant and to ensure that competition continue in
an organized manner. If Papyrus can't predict what a rule will be or if
they can't decide how to implement a rule, they should decide upon
something that fulfills the basic function of a rule. In this case,
Papyrus should implement code that penalizes any car that passes before
the S/F line at the beginning of a race, and penalizes any car that
times the restart so as to pass several cars easily. This second
problem would be difficult but I believe a solution is possible.
David Martin
> > On 8 Jan 1997 05:41:37 GMT, "Payton W. Snider II"
> > >Also in REAL winston cup, if you pass on the inside BEFORE the start/finish
> > >line you will be black flagged. NASCAR1 & NASCAR2 missed this one.
> > That was always my understanding of the rule as well, but in carefully
> > reading the 1996 rulebook, it appears that this is explicitly stated
> > for the initial start of the race (to begin lap 1), but the wording
> > for a restart was something to the effect of "racing shall resume
> > immediately upon display of the green flag." (I don't have a rulebook
> > at home)
> > I tend to think that the de facto rule is what you've stated above,
> > though the rulebook seems to suggest otherwise for restarts.
> > And you are correct, we do not enforce the distinction between passing
> > on the left and the right.
> > ---Jim Sokoloff, Papyrus
> Since the first official lap does not begin until cars cross the S/F
> line for the first time under green, no passing should be allowed at all
> on the initial start until you have passed the S/F line. This means no
> passing on the right or the left.
> I think we would all agree that it would be hard for any software
> company to keep up with the changing rules of a sport that they are
> simulating, however, rules are made to prevent unfair advantages given
> to any particular participant and to ensure that competition continue in
> an organized manner. If Papyrus can't predict what a rule will be or if
> they can't decide how to implement a rule, they should decide upon
> something that fulfills the basic function of a rule. In this case,
> Papyrus should implement code that penalizes any car that passes before
> the S/F line at the beginning of a race, and penalizes any car that
> times the restart so as to pass several cars easily. This second
> problem would be difficult but I believe a solution is possible.
> David Martin
