rec.autos.simulators

Go #6 Mark Martin and #16 Ted Musgrave - Jack Roush Racing!!
NASCAR Racing!!

http://www.racesimcentral.net/~sean/nascar/nascar.html <--NASCAR Racing Sim page

The rear view mirrors in IndyCar II use a "wide-angle" effect so that they
will show you cars that are to your side as well as behind you.

Rick Genter
Technical Lead, IndyCar Racing II/NASCAR Racing for Macintosh/Windows
Papyrus Design Group, Inc.

 that we'll have it done in time for NASCAR for

I keep hearing that the next release of ICR and NASCAR will come out for
Windows 95 and for DOS (and Macintosh).  My question is; Will it provide the
same frame rate if you buy either the Windows 95 Version or the DOS Version?  
In other words, in the Windows 95 version will the game be a DOS-mode game (but
the main difference is that it is installed under Windows and having a better
menu system)?  Or will there be a decrease in performance with the Windows 95
version compared with the DOS version?  
I have been running NASCAR and Indycar under Windows 95 but in DOS mode only
for a better frame rate (and because they are DOS based games).  I would like
to run the new versions of these games in Windows 95 at the same frame rate as
their DOS counterparts.  Is this going to be possible in the new releases?  
Thanks.
--
Nick DiGiovanni
Port Coquitlam, B.C.
'95 KDX-200-H1

: My understanding is that the reason that few games use it is that not all
: video cards support it. The last thing we need is to have tens of
: thousands of people calling us asking why "medium" resolution doesn't work
: for them...

Ahm, Rick, even the oldest VGA-card supports a 320x400x256 colour mode. You just
have to switch to 320x200x256-Mode and then change i think two of the
STANDARD VGA-registers. You can read how to achive this in almost any book about
programming of VGA-cards.

I have FS5.1 and had SystemShock-CD. They both support 320x200, 320x400, 640x400
(which is nonstandard too, but can be accomplished by using the UNIVESA-driver,
which supports almost any videocard supported by it), and 640x480.

My (personal) opinions: (AMD486/66 (clocked at 80), 8MB ram, CL 5426)

Fs5.1: all details on:

320x200: very low image quality, excellent performance
320x400: acceptible image quality, good performance
640x400: good image quality, bad performanc if many details
640x480: excellent image quality, very bad performance

SystemShock in Fullscreen Mode (detail levels not adjustable):

320x200: low IQ, totally smooth
320x400: good IQ, mostly smooth
640x400: slightly better IQ, very slow
640x480: almost no difference to 640x400 mode.

Nascar racing:

320x200: low image quality, mostly smooth with all details on
640x480: excellent IQ, barely playable even with no details

Summary: introducing a 320x400 mode in Nascar (and Indy II) would be a great
         (and inexpensive) improvement !!!!!

Greetings

Ralf

Another realism option we are introducing in IndyCar Racing II are random
breakdowns for the player. We are not going to have the failure of
individual gears however; this is more a time issue than anything else.

Another thing that happens is that of brake lock-up like in Indycar and
brake
fade in Indycar and NASCAR.
<<<

Brake lock would require us to rework our physics model (which really
doesn't support it). Perhaps someday...

Rick Genter
Technical Lead, IndyCar Racing II/NASCAR Racing for Macintosh/Windows
Papyrus Design Group, Inc.

The frame rate under Windows 95 is *highly* dependent upon your Windows 95
video drivers. I've seen the same machine (P-66) do high res, all textures
on at 11 FPS under DirectDraw and 2 FPS under WinG. Under Windows
3.1/Win32s (which we are currently not planning to release) WinG gave ~11
FPS. It all depends on the video driver...

BTW, best case Windows 95 and DOS seem to be running neck and neck in
frame rate (within 0.5 FPS of each other).

Rick Genter
Technical Lead, IndyCar Racing II/NASCAR Racing for Macintosh/Windows
Papyrus Design Group, Inc.

Perhaps great, not inexpensive. On DOS we would have to have 320x400
artwork to go with 320x400 game play. It takes a lot of manpower to do the
artwork.

I'll look into a 320x400 mode for future efforts, but frankly,  the market
is moving ot 640x480x8 bit and beyond...

Rick Genter
Technical Lead, IndyCar Racing II/NASCAR Racing for Macintosh/Windows
Papyrus Design Group, Inc.

Can you tell us which video cards are supportting DirectDraw?  I'll be
needing to buy a new card (my Viper just barely supports win95 as it is)
and as suspect much of my new video cards time will be spent watching ICR
II, I want to get one that works well with it.

As you would likely know better than anyone, what is your opinion as the
BEST video card for Windows95, DirectDraw and IndyCar Racing II?

Thanks for your advice.

-James

Perhaps the failures could be more common for the first season or two, but
as a driver gets more races the frequency of failures would drop.

Scott

Sorry again, I must a comment on this :-)
: >>>
: Summary: introducing a 320x400 mode in Nascar (and Indy II) would be a
: great
:   (and inexpensive) improvement !!!!!
: <<<

: Perhaps great, not inexpensive. On DOS we would have to have 320x400
: artwork to go with 320x400 game play. It takes a lot of manpower to do the
: artwork.

I don't know exactly how your simulation model works, but i assume it's
independent from the resolution until the point of projecting a 3d-like
model to the 2d-screen. You are already scaling the bitmaps to match
the resolution (hey, there is no different artwork (i.e. bitmaps) for the
cars in hires and lowres). That means you have just to adjust your scaling
parameters to match 320x400 instead of 320x200 or 640x480, and can still
use the 640x480 bitmaps. The only graphics part, that has to be adjusted
to 320x400 is the car's interior, which can easily be done by scaling a
screenshot of a 640x480***pit to 320x400 and doing some cosmetic changes.
(the only prob may be to find a paint programm, that lets you paint in
320x400 mode). You than have to adjust the positions of flashing lights
and your needles as well as the font for the speed indicator (and the font
for the few characters in full screen mode). That's all concerning the
graphics part. You can still use 640x480 for all the menues and the replays,
'cos they don't affect gameplay.

All of the above is simple graphics programming basics!

So what do you have to change for 320x400:

1. add a commandline switch -m for medium resolution.

2. Switch to 320x400 mode whenever one selects practice, qual, warmup
   and race.

3. Switch back to 640x480 when one hits escape

4. make all of the changes, i mentioned above to the graphics part

5. play the game

An experienced crew of programmers and graphics artists should be able
to do the above changes within a couple of days (well, a really experienced
crew could do it in less than one day). And i'd say this is inexpensive!

: I'll look into a 320x400 mode for future efforts, but frankly,  the market
don't wait for the future, do it now !!!
: is moving ot 640x480x8 bit and beyond...
Nascar isn't playable at a decent framerate with full details on the
fastest machine on the market theses days (and the latest roumors about
the P6 tell me, it won't be playable for another long time), so going
to even higher resolutions is totally ridiculous.

One last note:  

Why do you port Nascar to Windows? It makes no sense at all.
New menues ? You can do new menues in Dos, too.
Standardised graphics drivers? They only eat performance.
Selling the same game for a second time? I won't buy it.
Or is Microsoft giving you money for doing a special version to make
Win 95 more attractive?  It's the only reason why i'd do it.

In my eyes doing a windows and a dos-version is total bullshit!!!

It's throwing out your money throuh the window(s 95 :-)).
And it IS EXPENSIVE.

So much for now. Keep up the good (= Dos and Mac) work, make your
games run smooth on the machines that are available, and don't think
about making it run on the Pentium 2000 under Win 2000.

Thanx for your interest,

Ralf

However, I do agree that 320x400 would be a cool thing "to give a
look-see" if I were Papyrus.  

I can think of a good reason.  I bought SoftRam 95 for $29
It compresses my RAM to about 24 megs versus 8.  Granted, it's gonna
be a little slower in that regard, but I would be able to *hopefully*
use that RAM in the simulation, versus go out and spend $400 on 8 more
megs.

I do have this to say, however.  I have seen in the Amiga software
market, this tendency to program software "for the lowest common
demoninator"  In other words, hey let's not make this game unplayable
for a 68000 processor or people without hard drives or cd-roms!  Geez,
go ahead! If it's *that* good I'll have a real reason to get a 68040!

At least with NASCAR Racing, I can justify getting a P-100.  In fact,
it's the *only* reason hehehehe

Go #6 Mark Martin and #16 Ted Musgrave - Jack Roush Racing!!
NASCAR Racing!!

http://www.racesimcentral.net/~sean/nascar/nascar.html <--NASCAR Racing Sim page

3. Switch back to 640x480 when one hits escape
<<<

We thought about doing this for ICR II (run the interface always in
640x480 and game play at the user selected level). A lot of people pop in
and out of driving, however, while trying to set up their car
(garage->drive->garage->drive->etc.), and the constant mode switching is
NOT GOOD on at least some video card/monitor combinations. (One of our
engineers has a monitor that, when he mode switches, he runs about a 10%
chance of having is monitor turn off, since it can't deal with [I'm
assuming] the refresh rate change.) We finally decided against it, even
though it would've meant less work for us (only one set of interface
artwork).

And artwork IS NOT EASY. It takes an artist several days to "get it right"
per screen. A track shot takes even more time. There are 15 tracks in ICR
II, at *three* different resolutions (the track shots on Macintosh/Windows
are at 447x330). It is a manpower intensive effort, and frankly adding a
320x400 mode is probably not going to increase our market share
significantly enough to justify it.

In my eyes doing a windows and a dos-version is total bullshit!!!
<<<

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion.

Rick Genter
Technical Lead, IndyCar Racing II/NASCAR Racing for Macintosh/Windows
Papyrus Design Group, Inc.

That was from the force in which he struck the wall.  And it wasn't nearly
as bad (airborne wise, it was a horrific accident) as the NASCAR wrecks.
The last I heard he was home getting better.

... Eat healthy, exercise daily, and die young anyway.

: >All of the above is simple graphics programming basics!

: Well... I haven't done any graphics programming on the pc.  I know the
: Amiga can handles resolutions on the fly, but not sure about the PC.
: Heck, I guess this is off topic, sorry.

I have done graphics programming on a lot of platforms including pc
and amiga. It's even easier to introduce a 320x400 mode into nascar than
i showed in my previous post. They don't have to redo any artwork at all,
just add a some new lines of code.

: However, I do agree that 320x400 would be a cool thing "to give a
: look-see" if I were Papyrus.  
Hear it Papyrus !!!! It's not just me!!

: >Why do you port Nascar to Windows? It makes no sense at all.
: >New menues ? You can do new menues in Dos, too.
: >Standardised graphics drivers? They only eat performance.
: >Selling the same game for a second time? I won't buy it.
: >Or is Microsoft giving you money for doing a special version to make
: >Win 95 more attractive?  It's the only reason why i'd do it.

: I can think of a good reason.  I bought SoftRam 95 for $29
: It compresses my RAM to about 24 megs versus 8.  Granted, it's gonna
: be a little slower in that regard, but I would be able to *hopefully*
       ^^^^^^^^^^^^^
       would slow down nascar (or Indy II) even more...

: >So much for now. Keep up the good (= Dos and Mac) work, make your
: >games run smooth on the machines that are available, and don't think
: >about making it run on the Pentium 2000 under Win 2000.

: I do have this to say, however.  I have seen in the Amiga software
: market, this tendency to program software "for the lowest common
: demoninator"  In other words, hey let's not make this game unplayable
: for a 68000 processor or people without hard drives or cd-roms!  Geez,
: go ahead! If it's *that* good I'll have a real reason to get a 68040!
I won't buy a Pentium 120 just for Nascar or Indycar..

: At least with NASCAR Racing, I can justify getting a P-100.  In fact,
: it's the *only* reason hehehehe
            ^^^^^^^^^^^^
            that's the point

Ralf