rec.autos.simulators

NASCAR Racing for Macintosh/Windows is scheduled to be released during Q1
1996. The car sets and setups should be compatible, though the color
palette is changing (in order to be friendlier to Windows users). We are
looking at providing a converter that will convert from the old color
palette to the new, and we should be releasing an update to the DOS
version of NASCAR at the same time to use the new color palette.

Rick Genter
Technical Lead, IndyCar Racing II/NASCAR Racing for Macintosh/Windows
Papyrus Design Group, Inc.

Just weighing my options :)  I'll most likely buy any and everything
for NASCAR Racing that ya'll put out anyhow...

Professional Consultant

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Forgive me, but the ability to run on other platforms does not mean a thing to a
user who only has ONE platform. That's like saying that a car stereo is good
because it will fit in a Ford as well as a Chevy. I have always loved Papyrus
products but this thing about curbs, together with a nagging feeling about
corners being cut in the implementation of the tracks, leads me to think that
F1GP II will crucify ICR II (in europe at least.....especially if Papyrus allow
VIE to handle the releases).

Breaking cars sound nice, but there isn't much after the nose cone that can
break on an Indycar and still leave it driveable, unlike a Nascar.

This may be heresay but I don't recall track faults like these in F1GP. In
ICR/NASCAR we have an inaccurate Cleveland pitlane, a VERY badly implemented
tri-oval at Talledega, grip problems at Richmond, bent pitlanes that should be
straight and cars that can be 5 secs behind me at some tracks and level on
others when qualifying. That said I still play them, but would so love to be
able to go around Talladega with my foot to the floor ALL the time.

Also, given that Papyrus are watching (!), could they give a technical reason
why the 'tall-vga' resolution is not used to overcome the heinous frame rate
problems in NASCAR? 320x400 provides a good performance vs detail solution but
so few games seem to use it.

==============================================================

==============================================================

I believe it was Terry Labonte in the Monte Carlo Tide-sponsered car 5.  Ask
Rusty Wallace how good those roof flaps work too.  The IndyCars don't usually
get airborne unless they run over each others wheels, and after seeing the
other drivers go through each other in IndyCar, I doubt that could ever
happen.  <g>

... Beware of hip and rum drivers.

VIE will propably release the ICR2 before christmas, so this shouldn't
be a problem.  

<snip>

F1GP didn't have serious faults in tracks, althought there were few
inaccuracies and bugs like glass walls in Monaco (no wall, but car can't
cross curbs) and hologram tire barriers in Spa.  Hockenheim ostkurve (?)
is one example of inaccuracies, normally 80 km/h chicane, but in game it
can be taken out at 180-220 km/h.

I think the major F1GP problems were steering assistance (car drives
like a train) and too sensitive steering if it was turned off.  Both
ICR and Nascar have good controls.  You can choose the driving lines,
it feels realistic enough, but is still controllable with decent joystick.

I agree about track inaccuracies.  The qualifying time problem is minor
because it can be fixed with text editor, but why it wasn't done by
Papyrus?

<snip>
<snip>

I think the 320x400 isn't "standard", but it seems to work fine in FS5
and USNF.  Has anyone done any tests about it's speed gain compared to
640x480?  I didn't notice much difference between USNF 320x400 and
640x480 with CL5428 on DX2-66/8MB.

Anyway, I'll propably buy both ICR2 and F1GP2, if they have fixed the
AI problems on some tracks (ICR) and have decent driving model (F1GP2).

Pasi.

Primarily a *much* easier to use user interface. For example, the garage
will be a single dialog, from which you can view all of your settings and
change them directly. No more "More" and "Less" :-). Just type in a
number!

Will there be an "upgrade" option?
<<<

Probably not, but that's a question I'd have to defer to marketing.

Will the DOS version be
supported in the future?
<<<

Yes. Despite what Microsoft and some of the pundits say, we do not believe
that DOS is dead. We will believe that when the market numbers tell us
that, but not before.

Rick Genter
Technical Lead, IndyCar Racing II/NASCAR Racing for Macintosh/Windows
Papyrus Design Group, Inc.

All of the ICR tracks are being revisited for ICR II; with its vastly
improved AI, I think you'll find the ICR II tracks better to drive on.

We know of the problem with Talledega and, believe it or not, we are
working on a fix. I have no timeframe for a new Talledega track file. I'm
certain, however, that we'll have it done in time for NASCAR for
Macintosh/Windows.

The grip problems at Richmond need to be investigated; if I hear anything
I'll post to the group.

Also, given that Papyrus are watching (!), could they give a technical
reason
why the 'tall-vga' resolution is not used to overcome the heinous frame
rate
problems in NASCAR? 320x400 provides a good performance vs detail solution
but
so few games seem to use it.
<<<

My understanding is that the reason that few games use it is that not all
video cards support it. The last thing we need is to have tens of
thousands of people calling us asking why "medium" resolution doesn't work
for them...

Rick Genter
Technical Lead, IndyCar Racing II/NASCAR Racing for Macintosh/Windows
Papyrus Design Group, Inc.

: IndyCars do not have roof flaps. (They don't even have much of a roof. :-)
: And while the roof flaps have helped NASCARs significantly, there are
: still times when they tumble. (Which race and driver was it this year who
: tumbled side-over-side about 7 times? - I think it was Talladega and one
: of the Labontes...)

Close, but no cigar :) It was Kenny Schrader (#25 Budweiser car) and wow,
what a ride he took!

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Really effecient "roof flaps"...(grin)

Mike McCallister - Huntington, WV. Cabell County Sheriff's Departmnent

Special Services Unit. (SSU) AKA " Blakes Snakes"

Dale Earnhardt -  7 time Winston Cup Champion.

What about curbing?  Let's face it, curbing is a requirement for quick
lap times at almost any street course.

An another thing, too.  This full course yellow for a minor bump in a corner
has got to go.  Road courses use local yellows...  This is a major
shortcoming for ICR 1, NASCAR is ok, because that is what NASCAR does.

One more thing to add to my wish list, runoff areas, better yet, runoff areas
with a different coefficient of friction.  I find myself trashing my car
with damage on where that really wouldn't happen.  If you get a little wide at
turn 3 at Road America, you don't hit a wall, you keep you're foot on it and
ride it back on.  Not so in ICR. At RA, the same is true for turn 1,5,6,8,12,
and 14.  I'm sure the same thing applies to other tracks.  It might be as
simple as changing the track model to move the concrete back to allow some
runoff on road courses.

Thanks for your attention.

---
The opinions expressed herein are those of the author and
not his employer or it's subsidiaries....................
---

To be accurate, it was Ken Schrader in the #25 Budweiser Chevrolet.

--
Tony Johns

: An another thing, too.  This full course yellow for a minor bump in a corner
: has got to go.  Road courses use local yellows...  This is a major
: shortcoming for ICR 1, NASCAR is ok, because that is what NASCAR does.

Actually, Nascar HAS local yellows... I saw them at Watkins Glen!
I kind of curious; How hard it would be to implement local yellows
in auto simulators?
For example, for local yellows:

1) You would have to keep all cars from passing during
the local yellow period.

2) You would have to reduce the speed of all cars.

3) Penalize driver if passing during local yellow... or have a rev
limiter but that wouldn't be realistic, would it.

4) somehow differentiate between full-course yellows and local yellows
signals... In Nascar, full course yellows are denoted by a yellow flag
in the top center of the screen. Can't have the same yellow flag in the
same position for local yellows. This brings up the addition of flag men
which leads to other types of flag displays such as oil on the track,
etc...etc...

What else?

BTW: didn't F1GP have flag men (local yellows) or was I dreaming? I
forget... haven't played it in a long time... I know... I know...
auto racing sacrilege!!!

Ujjal Bansel

: I believe it was Terry Labonte in the Monte Carlo Tide-sponsered car 5.  Ask
: Rusty Wallace how good those roof flaps work too.  The IndyCars don't usually
: get airborne unless they run over each others wheels, and after seeing the
: other drivers go through each other in IndyCar, I doubt that could ever
: happen.  <g>

Stan Fox at indy 500 was airborne... How's he doing anyway? absolutely
amazing recovery.

<shudder> unforgetable... <shudder>
Ujjal Bansel

: ... Beware of hip and rum drivers.

Will the cars in the new versions of Indycar and NASCAR have more simulated
mechanical problems.  For instance, you always hear about Indycar drivers
complain after the race that they didn't have 3rd and 5th gear anylonger during
the race or had difficulty in putting the car in 1st when trying to leave the
pits.
Another thing that happens is that of brake lock-up like in Indycar and brake
fade in Indycar and NASCAR.  Will we see any of this in the next releases or
future releases.
--
Nick DiGiovanni
Port Coquitlam, B.C.
'95 KDX-200-H1