rec.autos.simulators

If done right, it shouldn't cause a performance hit.

--
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IMPACT Motorsports
http://www.racesimcentral.net/
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OF COURSE. I probably haven't tried it <g>. I just have two version of it on
my PC, including an early beta. You know.. Ubisoft did MGPRS2 in Montreal,
and I live in Montreal.  Ubisoft had only about 3guys working on the project
that ever raced a real racecar in real life... Oh and should I repost the
URL about the website about the bad working conditions at Ubisoft ?

Of course... crappy replays.. AI who is flawled IMHO, bad physics.. canned
reactions.. fake weather conditions.. track accuracy is very bad (still a
tiny better than F1RS), bad sound.. no license, retro crappy and boring
racing, still slow menues.. and the list goes on and on... It's still fun,
but too flawed.  Like I said they will never make a good title because of
Ubisoft's mentality.

I bet you 5$ that the next title will STILL use the old POD game engine.

Err.. even Psygnosis F1 has more accurate tracks than what Ubisoft did.

Oh and PLEASE.. Gp2 was out 3years ago, with the limitation of the era.  But
Ubisoft didn't increased it's track accuracy in TWO titles...

And you just said it. When you compare a 3year old software to a new
release.. it's because it's flawed. Think about this.. THREE years and a
half almost.. that's BIG in the *** industry.

What major problem does Gp2 have in track accuracy ? The Montreal track is
IMHO the best (in it's 1994 form), and at least they have Suzuka accurate
(oops I forgot Ubisoft's game engine can't model banking and camber). How is
this possible in 1999 ?

Errr.. Im a Touring car driver and let me tell you that if you can't
remember what gear your in there's a problem since you will need to look at
the gear configuration. That means you don't pay attention to the track.
That's the same in whatever series... Heck it's difficult... 1-2-3-4-5

I don't see why you have problems with GPL and what gear your in. There's no
more feedback in a car that would tell you what gear your in more than in
GPL.

I can understand that.. GPL has a steep curve and probably no other sims on
the market needs more time to master it.  Thus being like in real life.
Even after 2full years of Touring car I wasn't able to master my Volvo 850T.

-= Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard/Nas-Frank>
-= NROS Nascar sanctioned Guide http://www.racesimcentral.net/
-= SimRacing Online http://www.racesimcentral.net/
-= Official mentally retarded guy of r.a.s.
-= May the Downforce be with you...

"People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realise
how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world."

LOL Cmon Dean..

So clutching it into first gear should be impossible because only the 20
best drivers in the world can. Anybody can drive a F1.. but it's not
everybody who can push it to the limit. Easy reasoning.  Putting a wheel or
2 in the grass is like the Chaos theory. It's soo unpredictable (mostly
because of the weight transfer at the moment and also how the grass is
actually..). That's easy physics.

Another time.. Cmon !

It's like that in ANY racing simulator or in ANY real-racing type. Heck if
you can't remember what gear your in... <vbg> "Because it's too fast".

I think it's more you. You didn't answer him. Let's try another time. What
do you want them to make better so you can remember what gear your in ?

That's a great point and you don't want to answer him. Why ?

Err... you want a voice to tell you what gear your in ? <g>

Nope, we are all doing normal threading here. No flames, no bashing fest..
nothing at all. But from this post it seems you just want to evade from the
reality.  That's how your shown to us. Heck we are a group of hard-core
simracer. You come here and tell US how GPL is ***(even if it's not true).
Heck at least do you have any real-life racing experience ?

If we wanted to flame you, we would had flamed you.

-= Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard/Nas-Frank>
-= NROS Nascar sanctioned Guide http://www.racesimcentral.net/
-= SimRacing Online http://www.racesimcentral.net/
-= Official mentally retarded guy of r.a.s.
-= May the Downforce be with you...

"People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realise
how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world."

--
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IMPACT Motorsports
http://www.impactmotorsports.com/pd.html
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LOL, what kind of touring car is that? A triycle contest? I never have
to *look* at the 'gear configuration' to figure out what gear I'm
in...In no car on this planet.
Sorry, couldn't resist...

As it is just as limited as any computergame the indicators are
probably just about right. Maybe a few working gauges as well as a
simple gear display would certainly have done a better job. But that's
of course not realistic...ho hum.

--Tel

That's exactly what I said, that in no car in the entire world (normal life
or racecar) you should look at what gear your in  ;)

Maybe you mis-understood me ;-)

Exactly ;-)   and we all understand that the goal with GPL wasn't to make it
accessible to the mass, but to a more strict group of hard-core fans who
want realism ;).

But all the gauges work btw, there's a website (sorry can't remember the
URL) about how each of them work (they are different for each GPL car).  And
to anybody who tells me they are impossible to read, they aren't more easy
to read if you would be in the real car. It's shaking and rattling
up/down/left/right, so you obviously wouldn't have enough focus to be able
to see the numbers on the tach ;-)

-= Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard/Nas-Frank>
-= NROS Nascar sanctioned Guide http://www.nros.com/
-= SimRacing Online http://www.simracing.com/
-= Official mentally retarded guy of r.a.s.
-= May the Downforce be with you...

"People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realise
how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world."

The definition of an aid is that it HELPS you. No clutch gives you a big
disadvantage. I started using a manual box the first day I got GPL because
of this and that's not good to be forced to turn aids off otherwise you'll
be miles behind at the start by the time engines got around to the power
band.

Dean

I suppose the tyres and track could have been so poor that grass doesn't
lose you that much grip but I'm not sure.

It's not about remembering but at the end of a straight you go from 5th to
2nd in a blink and I find it easy to go from 5th to 1st. As I've said a
million times I may improve on this but at the moment, with everything else
going on, it's quite hard. I would prefer a clutched auto gearbox then I
could get used to the braking points and grip levels without having to worry
about the gears as well.

Ok. When I say 'force' I meant if you need to know what gear your in. I'm
not saying they come to your house and smash your head in if you don't but
then I didn't think anyone stupid enough to think beyond what I meant. As
far as a better way, an optional gear digit at the top of the dash would be
nice while your learning. Don't say they didn't have them because drivers
didn't see TV snow when they crashed or have auto gears anyway so every aid
would compromise reality.

Wow. This gets worse. I might post some controversial stuff in the Nazi
newsgroups just to get more level headed replies.

I didn't say GPL was crap!!!! What planet are you on? I started my first
post saying I thought it was great sim that I loved but that it had a few
flaws IMHO. That's all. I'm one of those *** simmers that you go on
about. I've been with this NG since Nascar through Indycar II, GP2 and now
GPL.

OK. GPL is absolutely perfect. No flaws, problems or anything negative to be
said about it. Papy are god's and deserve my full and committed loyalty for
ever and ever amen. Happy?

Dean

That's *American* humor, Dean.  ;-)

Thanks for arguing.

~daxe

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~daxe

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You answered your own question.  It is a big encouragement to
use manual shifting.  I don't know if Papy really planned it
that way or not, but using the aids in any other papy sim
was a serious handicap.  They have never helped to get _good_
lap times - you have to drive without aids to do that.

On this point, I think Papy probably just wanted to maintain
some degree of realism.  Think about a real car with an
auto transmission.  It has no clutch.  If you wanted to,
you could rev it up and drop it into gear.  You can do
the same thing in GPL.  In fact, I use manual shifting
but don't use the clutch on the start - just slam it
into gear.

--
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IMPACT Motorsports
http://www.impactmotorsports.com/pd.html
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[long volley deleted]

Dean, you gotta realize the sheer number of Papy fanatics that live in
r.a.s..  It's a lost cause trying to point out any percieved
shortcomings with Papy products, because there are many here that will
jump to Papy's defense no matter what the argument.

Personally, I don't buy anything from them because I don't think they
are capable of producing an acceptable game graphically.  I bought one
of their off-road titles and it made me laugh.  Running Voodoo1 at
like 10-15 fps and rediculously sparse environment.  Additionally,
their allegance to Rendition cards is confusing.

Seems to me that they better watch out-- if a start-up w/ lots of
domain experience gets ahold of Ratbag's Difference Engine (sustained
60 fps), Papy's toast.  They better pay their developers good...

--mountain k

% >Because automatic transmissions don't have a manual clutch?

% It's not really an auto gearbox more an aid. All I'm saying is that without
% a clutch it's less an aid and more of a restriction.

Which, (you may agree or disagree with the merits) was the designers'
intention.  Driving with aids are a double-edged sword.  They are
crutches and in such should be a restriction.

I take it that you disagree with this philosophy, so be it. . .

--
**************************** Michael E. Carver *************************
     Upside out, or inside down...False alarm the only game in town.

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=<[ /./.  [-  < ]>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

Sounds like you are talking about SODA which was not a Papyrus designed
program.  The "produced" it, but was coded by another design group all
together.

--
**************************** Michael E. Carver *************************
     Upside out, or inside down...False alarm the only game in town.

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=<[ /./.  [-  < ]>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

Dave Ewing