rec.autos.simulators

Sure but Papy will think that they can retire now having reached sim
perfection. They haven't, that's all I'm saying.

No way. GPL's difficulty is its best feature

I'm not talking about bouncing. I'm talking about becoming entwined half way
in to a wall. GP2 and F1RS may not be perfect but they are a lot better.

I do use manual but if you were to use auto you lose the gear changing speed
(very slow) and have to start with no revs. That's not an aid, it's just a
stupid disadvantage. GPL is one game where it's easier to race WITH manual
IMO. I expect an aid to bring me up to the level of manual control while I
get better not punish me.

Sorry but this is rubbish. In MGPRS2 you can feel the front go light as you
overbrake or push too hard in to a corner as well as feel more resistance as
you go around a corner which help you determine your speed. More resistance
= more speed = more G's. Papy probably didn't have enough performance left
to calculate it. Roll on PII 900's.

If you drive ANY car with 2 wheels on the grass the car would pull to the
direction of the grass due to the extra resistance (MGPRS2 does this
beautifully and provides FFeffects to pull the steering that way). In GPL
you can put a wheel or 2 on the grass and not really notice. Other Papy sims
were the same.

As I've said I don't use auto gears but that doesn't make them any less
usable. Yeah my graphics card doesn't show the gears properly. Yeah that's
the problem. God forbid Papy could ever produce a feature less than perfect.
This is a ***y religion. Deny any critisism at all costs or we'll all go
to hell. The gear lever concept is ***in a sim. Areal driver doesn't have
to take their eyes off the road to check the gears (as he obviously feels
them). We can't yet Papy force us to take our eyes off the road in a fast
corner because they couldn't think of a better way.

GPL's sound is unbelievable but as yet I haven't been able to trust it for
really accurate feedback. Maybe more practice will help.

As I said initially it's just balance. If there's nothing wrong with GPL
then what are Papy going to improve? GPL is the best, it's is not the Holy
Grail of sims.

That's the best bit.

Dean

Seriously they look fine. I thought they would run like a bag of $%^& but
they don't. When I got Falcon 4 at Xmas I thought, mmm upgrade time then
after installing it thought wow, I'll leave it a while.

Dean

I think that, like many others in this group have pointed out, you will
start seeing fewer and fewer games that will run acceptably on your older
computer.  Eventually you WILL upgrade.  When you have the faster computer,
probably in the next year or two, you will still be within GPLs product life
and others who may have held off will buy it.  Presto!  No lost sales.

I don't suggest anyone do anything based on what I say unless they ask for
my advice.  I was arguing with your contention that the program is flawed
because you don't have a good enough computer to run it fully.

In my opinion, the AI behaviour is what defines the game, along with the
physics model.  The way you are describing it, you want a game that LOOKS
the same on every computer, but plays differently.  While I understand your
viewpoint, I think that is a kind of inconsistency that wouldn't be
beneficial to the game's reputation.

Yes, it is my opinion.  It also seems to be the opinion of 95% of the rest
of the people in here.  And better does not mean perfect, nor does 'more
advanced'.

I think your *question* was stupid.  You really need to read what is written
and stop projecting things into it.  I think it's a stupid question because
expecting backwards compatability forever is short-sighted.  Arguing
vociferously on behalf of retarding the progress of game development is
stupid when your problem with the game is based on YOUR SLOW COMPUTER and
nothing else.  I know I sound like a broken record, but lots of people with
up-to-date computers have no trouble with the program; the problem is not
with the program!!!!

I can't imagine running/flying around and shooting monsters/people as
entertainment.  That whole genre of games alternates between horrifying me
for its mindless 'killing-is-fun' mentality and boring me to tears.

Yes, the minimum is absurdly low.  I would NOT expect the framerate to be
perfect with a computer close to the minimum requirement.  I have used too
much software to give any creedence to minimum requirements.  If you recall,
Windows 95 was touted as runnable on a 386DX with 4 meg of memory.  Maybe a
few morons tried to do that and are STILL waiting around for it to finish
loading.  Yes, it ran on that machine, but so poorly as to be unusable.
This is not a new concept, and Papyrus/GPL are not alone in doing things
that way.  Anyone with half a brain and no axe to grind would realize the
program would run like ***on a system near the bottom of the hardware
requirement barrel.  What are the minimum requirements for the other games
you mentioned as running perfectly well?  Are they also P166MMX?   (asking
because I don't know, not to be a smartass)

~daxe
"beating a dead horse into hamburger"

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I'll agree GPL isn't well rounded in the way that a big budget or Nintendo
game is (I'm not being sarcastic here, either, those Nintendo games are
super professional in all ways, for what they are).  GPL really just does
one little trick really well - racing.

<snip>

You are right about that.  A 166 will not cut it... 166 is a lie.

rob.

That has got to be the worst point I've ever seen. I will not justify it
with a reply.

Remember the Min spec was for software only. I would expect given a slightly
faster processor, mmx plus a Voodoo2 to be more than a little better than
minimum spec. Does it actually run on a 166 in software. I can't see it
somehow. Oh well.

Dean

In arcade racers, I NEED to get first place, in GPL I'm very satisfied
to drive
somewhere in the middle and SURVIVE the race... ;^)

l8er
ronny

--
Your mouse has moved. Windows must be restarted for the change
to take effect. Reboot now?
          |\      _,,,---,,_        I want to die like my Grandfather,
   ZZZzz /,`.-'`'    -.  ;-;;,_              in his sleep.
        |,4-  ) )-,_. ,\ (  `'-'     Not like the people in his car,
       '---''(_/--'  `-'\_)            screaming their heads off!

You MUST be kidding!  Have you seen what Spa looks like in 1024x768?
--
Regards,
Bruce.
----------
HMRC Web site address is:-
http://www2.tpg.com.au/users/brucek/hmrc/index.htm
----------

Tadej Krevh
// and take it easy at 1st, because many drivers jump into Lotus and then get
very frustrated
// take BRM or Coventry at first and then try out the upper class cars...

What! where do you get this from? Are you not aware that Papy are
already working on their next sims?

Have you ever watched *real* F1 races? ever noticed how, on quite a
few tracks, they are able to put two wheels quite a bit off the track
on the kerbs, on the dirt, and even (gasp!) on the grass!!!!) No!
perhaps you should watch and see. Granted, its not recommended
driving, but it *does* happen, and they *do* get away with it?

Amen Brother, (Thats called Irony?) Constructive critisism is one
thing, unfounded allegations, uninformed comment, and plain stupid
remarks are another.

And you can hear the revs, and you can remember what gear you just put
the car in, and you can glance at the rev counter, etc, etc, yeah,
yeah, ok, so what are you getting at.....

Hmmm, Papy "force us" do they? Do you always let people force you to
do things you don't want to do? If you don't want to look at the gear
lever, then don't. It really is that simple? No-one is forcing you to
look at it. And what would be a better way? I'de be very interested
to hear.

I think most decent drivers, after a bit of practice, rarely have to
look at the gear lever while driving.

I'm not particulally good at GPL, but I've already learnt to change
gear without looking at the lever, but it is handy to have if you
crash, or spin, and want to glance down to check which gear you are in
after quickly dropping up or down the gears pretty fast.Perhaps you
need a bit more practice? The choice is yours, you can look if you
want, or not, no-one is forcing you to do anything.

I never said it was (has anybody?) so why are you arguing?
Jeez, get a life and complain about something thats really bothering
you.

*Peter*   #:-)

Well there must be a reason, no ?

It's easy... GPL makes MGPRS2 look like a video arcade game.

No but it's the most perfect hard-core simracing title that was ever
produced.  And it's a BIG step in front of the second most.. Is this hard to
understand ? It's funny any hard-core simracer knows that. And anybody that
raced in real life knows that.

LOL yes it's based on the POD game engine.  The real physics are about
non-existant in MGPRS2, it's all made of canned routines and so.

Per example, did you know that the tracks are flat ? They don't have any
camber and banking. That means that the track will go up and down in Z axis,
and that's mostly all. It won't roll on it's axis.  You don't have camber
that means that the track itself is flat.. not shapen like an arc as in real
life. same goes for the banking.  The carrousell at the Ring is VERY
banked.. not in the title.

Oh and for the bumps... it's precalculated XYZ positions in the track
files... all canned not real physics compared to GPL.

Just memorize your gear.  Like in real life.  You need to learn how to do
that.  In real life CART since they have sequential gears they need to
memorize for all the race what gear they are...

-= Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard/Nas-Frank>
-= NROS Nascar sanctioned Guide http://www.racesimcentral.net/
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-= Official mentally retarded guy of r.a.s.
-= May the Downforce be with you...

"People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realise
how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world."

% > Firstly I think GPL is great but I have to say the religious
% > following is a
% > little dodgy to say the least.

% I personally cannot understand why there are so many negative posts
% about GPL at the moment? There are lots of driving games/sims that I
% don't use, don't like, or I am simply ***at. But I don't spend all
% my spare time writing posts slagging them off!!!! I concentrate on
% driving the games/sims that I *DO* enjoy.

Frustration at not being able to "enjoy" the best racing simulation
to date for the home PC.  That and trolling.

--
**************************** Michael E. Carver *************************
     Upside out, or inside down...False alarm the only game in town.

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=<[ /./.  [-  < ]>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

% 4) No clutch control on auto gearbox. Why?

Because automatic transmissions don't have a manual clutch?

% 6) No Force Feedback. I notice the manual sarcastically dismisses current
% feedback technology but even with this you can tell when the front end has
% begun to slide in MGPRS2 which would be a big addition to GPL.

There is also a big latency issue with Force Feedback.  One hears enough
complaints about the frame rate hit with AI cars.  Why bog down the
performance even more for a bit of hand-candy?

--
**************************** Michael E. Carver *************************
     Upside out, or inside down...False alarm the only game in town.

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=<[ /./.  [-  < ]>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

It was meant as a joke. Your American right? It's not racist before you
start, it's just that a lot of English humour and subtle sarcasm does seem
to get lost in this NG.

We are talking about the best 20 drivers in the world. Not me and you for
pity's sake. Shuey can do it, I wager you and I should not without any
practice as is quite possible in GPL. Sometimes you barely notice putting a
wheel on the grass let alone get punished for it.

Irony. Good at least your aware of the concept. Now go away and practice it
a little more then you won't have to be so obvious about it.

When you knock the gears down quickly at the end of the straight it's easy
to miss-count and end up losing the back end in first.

Hmmm. End of stupid conversation I think. You can't see the point I'm not
going to waste my time explaining something that's this simple.

This started out (I didn't start it) as a lighthearted balance to all the
GPL is wonderful posts. Idiots like you have turned it in to vitriolic mess.
Maybe I was right about the religious angle. You can't suggest alternative
options to them either whether it's lighthearted or not.

Dean

I wager you've not played it. I have both and love both. Your probaly in
America and haven't had MGPRS2 yet. I'm waiting for all the posts on MGPRS2
to increase dramatically once you get the official release.

Agreed it is the best, just not by as large a margin as is suggested by
people who haven't got MGPRS2.

And that affects the good use of FF in what way?

Yes I'm well aware of that. In Europe we watch F1 with a passion so you'd
have to be blind not to know. The game itself however is the best of it's
kind so we have to live with it. BTW did you ever critisise GP2 for it's
awfully flat inaccurate tracks or is it just a MGPRS2 slagging session.

GPL isn't real life and you don't have the feedback to tell you what gear
your in. Have you ecer (be honest) looked at your gear leve in your real car
since you took your driving test. Of course not you don't need to. You
shouldn't in GPL.

As I've said elsewhere I'm sure practice will make me better but in the
meantime it's annoying.

Dean

It's not really an auto gearbox more an aid. All I'm saying is that without
a clutch it's less an aid and more of a restriction.

Dean