rec.autos.simulators

Think about how long it took to get the ICR2 patch out. 1 only and still
has many bugs. Now think about what will happen with N2. Same shit. And no
AA patch
to boot.
To bad ID Software does not make race sims.

Mr Bill.

The lack of a patch to date is really beginning to get VERY
frustrating.  I understand it takes time.  I also understand the
reluctance to give a date (after the flaming in the past).  But just
keeping us all in the dark is also wrong.  
  Are they really working on one?  How far along are they?  Is it not
out because of a problem in only one or a few areas?  I think a little
info here, from someone working on it, would go a long way.  I'm really
getting tired of all the rumors.
  I think Papyrus/Sierra owes us at least some info.  Don't you?

Lyman
http://www.infi.net/~lymanv/tnms/tnms.htm

I agree 100%. info is needed and I feel , owed
to the purchasers of N2.

Yes I do And the only reason there not giving any target date is that
gives them a reason not to put any effort into getting the patch out.
     Those that think flaming is the reason papy is not giving out any
info have been had.
        What ever happened to customer commitment especially AFTER you
paid FULL PRICE for a bug filled sim. We should have gotten a BUG
DISCOUNT
        And believe me, they knew about the great majority of those
bugs before they started making those CD's

Examples:

Sierra acquires Dynamix - Dynamix staff bails and starts their own company
EA buys Origin - Chris Roberts bails and starts his own company.

There is something to be said for SMALL companies.  You can get a LOT MORE DONE
for starters.  Once you get buried within the big corporate shell you have to
deal with ***like marketing, accountants, and tons or corporate RED TAPE.

You can be sure that Sierra's accountants have already determined that they've
made their profits from Nascar 2 and want their programmers working on their
next PROFIT GENERATING title.  Who cares if N2 has bugs - you already bought it
and Sierra has cashed the check.  

The best thing that could happen to the racing sim market would be for the PAPY
programmers to bail on Sierra and form their own company and start over.  I'm
not sure why PAPY sold out to big ole Sierra but as Sierra and EA and these
other big corporations acquire the smaller firms (oops - I mean COMPETITION) the
quality of the games is decreasing with each subsequent release.

DEATH TO SOFTWARE MONOPOLIES!!!!!

How LONG it takes a patch to get out is NOT a measure of it's quality.
                          How much EFFORT put into it is!!
   And if you don't make your expectations known, you goig to get a
patch (maybe) that is half effort, half quality, and late getting out
as well!!!
                    - GET WITH THE PROGRAM!!!!

They don't owe us any more than they've already stated, and
continually ***ing about known issues isn't going to do anybody any
good.  Can you honestly be surprised that more companies don't have
some sort of official presence in these newsgroups due primarily to
people like you whining ***ing and moaning on a 24-***ing-hour
basis.

Give it a goddamn rest, you purile little***wads.

Well Said, Well Spoken :)

What piece of work this guy is (figures, he's an AOL'er)

I paid $50.00 for this bug filled piece of software.  I do think they at
least an estimate of when the patch will be out.  

Thats it kid.  One more outburst like this and your grounded.  That means
no more computer for you little boy

Richard Manning

***************************************************************
*   Scott Davis - Singer/Songwriter and a heck of a nice guy  *
*                                                             *

***************************************************************

Well Said.  Why should they spend all of their time and effort on a
game that they have collected their money on.  They are probably
working on their next release of Nascar.  Just from reading this NG, I
hope their patch is well worth the wait.  If not, I don't think they
will be selling too many on their next release.  

This "owes us" philosophy really gets me, because it's self destructive.
No company _owes_ you anything.   They make a product, you decide whether
or not to buy it.  The Net is a great tool, as customer satisfaction
information is easily available.  So wait for the Net info before you buy,
post your complaints, encourage boycotts, etc.  That rewards companies
that do it right.

But no one owes you anything.  And as long as you believe they do you'll
be a victim and do dumb things.  If you buy a bad product from a bad
company that's _your_ mistake and _you_ have to deal with it.  Once you
truly believe that, you'll buy fewer bad products.  

                              bob

: This "owes us" philosophy really gets me, because it's self destructive.
: No company _owes_ you anything.   They make a product, you decide whether
: or not to buy it.  The Net is a great tool, as customer satisfaction
: information is easily available.  So wait for the Net info before you buy,
: post your complaints, encourage boycotts, etc.  That rewards companies
: that do it right.

: But no one owes you anything.  And as long as you believe they do you'll
: be a victim and do dumb things.  If you buy a bad product from a bad
: company that's _your_ mistake and _you_ have to deal with it.  Once you
: truly believe that, you'll buy fewer bad products.  

I agree, well put.  The way to look at it is that the company owes it to
itself to make a product that will satisfy its customer base.  If a
company wants to continue to prosper it needs to address the problems in
its products (in this case software).  It is in their best interest to
fix major problems.  It is a goodwill gesture to do so in a timely and
in the least costly manner to their customers.

However, because Papyrus has had a good track record in fixing their
products in the past (though not always in what many would say is a
timely manner), many of their loyal customers "assume" this practice
will continue.  They bought NASCAR 2 in good faith, assuming
Papyrus/Sierra would follow their past practice.  We bought N2 fully
expecting Papyrus to live up to their high standards.  In a sense this
can be construed as a contract, and therefore in one sense,
Papyrus/Sierra does "owe" us something.  We won't be taking them to
court over it, but rest assured that they can damage their future
viability as a producer of a "must buy" product.

I for one will not consider another MicroProse product until I see
"proof" of their support.  They have destroyed what ever faith I had in
them as a company to support their software with their refusal to
address real "bug" issues with Grand Prix II.  

I still have faith in Papyrus and I expect we should be seeing a
substantial patch in the not to distant future.  The ICR2 Win+patch was
a messy affair, but in the end Papyrus/Sierra did more than enough to
make it right.  I am sorry to say that MicroProse hasn't even come close
to matching Papyrus in this area.

--
**************************** Michael E. Carver *************************
     Upside out, or inside down...False alarm the only game in town.

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=<[ /./.  [-  < ]>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=