rec.autos.simulators

I mean, if there's only one converter (that I know of), why are there
different versions of the tracks?  Silverstone is a prime example.

Anyone have the definitive answer on this?

   Nr2k3 from what I hear is very picky about which version of a track you
have.   And yes, there are more than one of many of the tracks.  I think we
may have to start naming the tracks by builder.  i.e. Noonan_Silver  
Many folks have whipped out some of the GPL tracks...some of those people
have used Noonan's convertor and then possibly made a slight change to try
and hide the similarities.  However when that happens, two users, both with
Silverstone, but by different authors..can't join the same race.  
Frustrating.
dave henrie

If this is going to be a problem, then buying the converter was a waste of
my money.

Larry

Well, it's because Noonan has updated his converter from time to time,
fixing bugs. These tracks converted with different versions of his converter
/ track description files arent't compatible online.

When racing online, you should make sure that everyone including the host
has the latest version of Noonan's converter files to make the conversion.

--
Mika Takala

How does one get the latest version of the converters (both demo and
retail)?  I downloaded the demo converter on 05/01/2002, and got the
retail converter on 04/01/2003.  

I wasn't aware that there *were* any updates to the converter binary
itself. However,the support page on the website lists several revised
.EXP files (all of which I have applied, but none of which are
Silverstone).

There is only one converter version that was released.  As long as everyone grabs the patches from David's website, the version
has no influence on what the track looks like (unless they use a very early version that was built for N4, perhaps).

David has allowed leagues to privately post the track files to prevent problems.  Just insure all drivers know that this is not
a free for all for everyone to download and pass around.  You may want to password the .zip files...

Cheers!

Jan

problems.  Just insure all drivers know that this is not
password the .zip files...

Correct me if I'm wrong here, but surely David Noonan does not have the
authority to allow people to host converted tracks? The copyright would
still lie with the developer of the original game (ie gpl) wouldn't it?

Malc.

Are you talking "hosting" as in a server running the track, or "hosting" as insuring everyone has the same copy?

If you buy a copy of GPL, you are free to do what you want with the tracks in the game, except for one thing...
give them to someone else free of charge (or charge for use of them).  Running a track on a server does not
cross that boundary.

If you are hosting the track for league players to insure everyone has the same track, you have several alternatives...
insure that everyone has a copy of the converter and GPL (by whatever means you feel necessary), or you could post the .dat file
without any of the corresponding files (.lp, .ini and so on) so that they would have to have a copy of the converter and GPL to
correctly make the final track.

To answer your question in the strictest sense of the word, no, David Noonan nor even Papy have the rights to allow you to host
a converted track, David Noonan because he didn't build the original, and Papy because they don't own the rights to the
conversion routine.  However, if you are a league admin and take steps to insure that the drivers are not grabbing the converted
copy without purchasing GPL or the converter, I don't think neither Papy or David Noonan is going to mind.  However, I don't
presume to speak for Papy nor their lawyers...  :)

Cheers!

Jan

Well, that's a pretty dicey answer. I think we both know he meant
putting the converted track up available for download, which is
pretty much the only way you can guarantee that everyone is using the
same track.

We had a bunch of people that could not join the Silverstone race
yesterday, and many of those people did the same thing I did - they
used the demo converter to convert their GPL track.  

There's got to be a better way that just guessing, but that doesn't
violate a copyright or that doesn't cause some other legal
entanglement.  It's really no wonder that we don't see a lot of
pickup races on sierra, or that OLR doesn't support 3rd party tracks.

Hmmmph.  There's not many people nowadays who feel that way and have no quarrel about posting stuff illegally, and Sierra/Papy
do nothing about them.  I fail to see that they would take any action against someone who is taking steps to keep people who are
not members of their league from downloading the same tracks and using them.

Again, that's the best answer you're going to get unless someone from Papy might feel free to comment?

Truely, the only way to *legally* post a track that is converted from a racing sim is to do this: Go to Sierra/Papyrus and
purchase the rights for that track for a limited distribution.  Get the converter.  Dave has already given HIS permission for
leagues to do so with conversions from *his point of view*.  Then you would be well and truely legal.  There is no other way, as
I really doubt that Sierra/Papyrus would "officially" say that you could post one of their tracks...it would be, in effect,
giving away their copyright to the track for them to say you could post it in that fashion.

The only way we're really going to solve this is when more and more tracks get built for N2003 (like you see with GPL).  When we
get to the point that there are hundreds of tracks for N2003, you certainly won't see so many problems in this fashion.

Cheers!

Jan

What REALLY sucks is that we have to worry about this at all.

:)