rec.autos.simulators

If there is a difference between the F1C, GTR and rFactor physics engine, I
can't feel it. Three very different vehicle implementations, for sure, and
the new DX9 renderer is spectacular, but the physics seem exactly the same
to me.

Jan.
=---

do you have all the aids and speed sensitivity off?

No, I have 12% speed sensitivity, so I can take my eyes off the road on the
straights, but I use the exact same setting in the 3 games (even a bit more
if I'm really driving the F1s in F1C).

Trust me, there is no noticable difference in the basic physics except maybe
the HAT samples are on by default (or I missed the setting in the
configuration files). Which is not to say the implementation and feel of the
cars isn't the best we've seen from ISI themselves yet.

Jan.
=---

...

   <rolls eyes>

Will GTR have support for it also?

--
Don Burnette

*I* know what I mean by that, anyway!!

As has been said, quantifying "feel" is pretty dang difficult.

It may well be that the cars are simply softer, but with rFactor I get
something that I never got with F12K2, the GTR mod for it or the GTR demo -
a sense of being there.  I get it with Papy stuff, RBR and to a slightly
lesser extent LFS.  I can't put my finger on it, but previously ISI stuff
that I'd tried was "clinical".  I'm lovin' rF, tho!!!

"Mark Davison" wrote

Agree 100% Mark.

I tried pretty darned hard to get to grips with the previous ISI engined
sims. Really hard, yet never acvhieved the feel factor. Rfactor is a
definite step forward for ISI IMHO.

Yup, you can download a video of it in action here...

http://www.gtr-game.com/index.php?page=downloads0

Jan.
=---

Oh dear... it's 2002 (or 2001, I don't remember) all over again.

Get this straight: the difference in feel is not due to a difference in
engine, but a difference in implementation. F1 2k2 and GTR2002 felt totally
different because of the different data (the implementation) being fed to
the same engine. Idem for GPL '65 and '67 and idem for, say, an ETCC2002 BMW
M3 (F1C) and the "M" model (rFactor).

Jan.
=---

The basic issues resided in the all F12k to GTR variants. Depsite their
obvious differences in implementation. To me rfactor feels a different base
engine, not just a different set of parameters fed into the same engine.

As Mark eluded, feel is a hard thing to quantify, but rfactor feels
different. Deep down, not just a rehash of an existing engine. I don't
believe there is a set of paramaters a mod team could enter into the F1C
engine that would feel the same.

Cheers
Tony

From what I've read though, the multiplayer demo may not even be the full
package physics wise. It still feels pretty great as is though.

--
David G Fisher

Other way around, more likely... or maybe we share a similar make-up, which
would account for our frequent clashes. <g>

And I say you're deluding yourself as I'm pretty sure I'm not letting my
"the masses are always wrong"-reflex guide me.

I see no evidence to suggest a major re-write was done with reference to F1
2k2 and F1C/GTR. To me the game has always had the potential to play this
way. ISI, possibly through having no outside interference (and control over
who played their early code), have delivered their most convincing game yet,
no question. I just don't see/experience any justification for the general
praise heaped upon them this time around other than people had a real go at
the game before dismissing it (also, they used to be more ahead of the
technology curve then they are now).

To me rFactor is a product of the enthousiasm they've always had for their
simulation being let off the reigns. Familiar with their engine like no
other, obviously, they've driven that advantage home in this implementation.
Other than fixing some of the more glaring issues with the online game
(especially in dedicated server mode), I experience no measureable
difference, sorry.

Which is not to say the potential isn't there if they're willing to listen
to their veterans (like me, I might shamelessly add).

Jan.
=---

Adjust the steering lock in the garage and the car will feel a lot more
stable.

If you don't know about this key setting with the ISI sims (along with the x
axis setting), it's hard to judge how good or realistic their sims feel. :-)
I've been saying this for a few years now. :-p Seriously though, without
these set correctly for whatever type wheel someone is using, a person will
struggle and have a completely screwed up opinion of the driving model.

For example, I used to use a Ferrari FF wheel, but now I use a MS FF. They
require completely different steering lock settings. Higher for the Ferrari,
lower for MS. If I used the Ferrari steering lock settings with my MS wheel,
I'd have  an extremely loose and super sensitive car, and would hate the way
it felt. The MS wheel has a shorter turning radius.

BTW, nothing wrong though with using some speed sensitivity.
--
David G Fisher