rec.autos.simulators

N2003's Damage Model

Eldre

N2003's Damage Model

by Eldre » Wed, 18 Feb 2004 10:25:01



>Ok, but why did it have to happen to me? ;-)
>I was on my way to only my 2nd league win ever, in any sim. My first came
>when I was in 2nd place and the leader had to stop and feed his son.

Hehe...
I *wondered* what happened to you.  I'm guessing you were the car that was
smoking?
Hell, I spun out of first place.  Low on fuel, knew I needed to make a stop.
The car sputtered coming towards pit in, and I made a snap decision to pit
right then.  The snap spin that followed was funny to Mitch, I'm sure...<g>

Dave, what happened to you?  You let me get my lap back(thanks), then next time
I saw your car(caution flag) you were in 4th?

Eldred
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Joachim Trens

N2003's Damage Model

by Joachim Trens » Wed, 18 Feb 2004 08:24:02

...

Maybe the laws of probability struck back to counter-balance your first
league win when that leader had to feed his son ;)

Achim

Mitch_

N2003's Damage Model

by Mitch_ » Wed, 18 Feb 2004 10:48:21

EZ killa :-)

I don't understand the hostility.  Can't we just once talk about something
without it deteriorating into a "mine is bigger than yours" shouting match.

We had damage set to off at the roadies and thats when I lost my gears.
Dave's is unique which is why he was complaining, which is understandable.

IMO (and others are starting to see the light) Papy's offerings are losing
appeal.  Why does this upset you so much?  This isn't a Papy owned and
operated newsgroup so you can....  Nevermind see what happens?

As Dave said and Ill agree, I spend precious time getting ready to have some
fun and when something ridiculously random happens its upsetting to the
point of questioning a sims validity.  Maybe Thunder is worse, I dont know
yet but after trying the demo Im going to spend some time trying cause IMO
it offers a better representation of the reality Im looking for in a Nascar
sim at this moment in time.   If you like to run Nascar cars on a roller
derby rink as your reality then fine Im not getting upset at you am I?

Mitch


> On Mon, 16 Feb 2004 18:29:23 -0500, "David G Fisher"

> If you don't want a sim, why don't you just shut up and play Thunder?

> No offense, but I play sims because I want something that bears some
> resemblance to reality.  Papy's damage model has faults, but those
> faults make it much less demanding than I personally would like it to
> be.  I'd like to see fenders rubbing from wall or side to side
> contact, radiators cracking, explosions from fuel line ruptures,
> random engine failures (not saying they don't exist, I've just never
> had my engine let go unless I was abusing it).  If the sim were as
> demanding as reality, you would very rarely be able to continue after
> most incidents in the game, and in the cases that you did you'd be
> staring at your monitor for an hour and a half while your crew pounded
> on the car.

> I will concede that Papy should have added an option to disable random
> failures (wasn't this an option in the pre-GPL days?).  But if you
> want to be able to drive recklessly and not suffer the consequences
> just turn the damage off or set it to moderate (and I honestly can't
> say I've seen random failures occur with either setting).

> It disgusts me that people sit on this newsgroup and argue about
> realism, and then complain when realistic things occur in a sim.  That
> makes no sense at all to me.  There's no shame in simply wanting to
> have fun driving a car, and if that's the case you're in luck because
> a vast majority of racing titles are geared towards that mindset.

> Jason

Mitch_

N2003's Damage Model

by Mitch_ » Wed, 18 Feb 2004 10:56:21

Heck man I was rooting for ya.  Thought you may have it figured out coming
to the end of the race.  All I saw was you spin then you disappeared so I
cycled back through the front guys.  You and ZZ both had a great opportunity
and Im always rooting the underdogs :-)  Nice race E.

Mitch




> >Ok, but why did it have to happen to me? ;-)
> >I was on my way to only my 2nd league win ever, in any sim. My first came
> >when I was in 2nd place and the leader had to stop and feed his son.

> Hehe...
> I *wondered* what happened to you.  I'm guessing you were the car that was
> smoking?
> Hell, I spun out of first place.  Low on fuel, knew I needed to make a
stop.
> The car sputtered coming towards pit in, and I made a snap decision to pit
> right then.  The snap spin that followed was funny to Mitch, I'm
sure...<g>

> Dave, what happened to you?  You let me get my lap back(thanks), then next
time
> I saw your car(caution flag) you were in 4th?

> Eldred
> --
> http://www.umich.edu/~epickett
> Screamers League
> IICC League
> GPLRank -6.0    MoGPL rank +267.80
> Ch.Rank +52.58   MoC +741.71
> Hist. +82.34  MoH:na
> N2k3 rank:in progress
> Slayer Spektera lvl 68 assassin
> Spectral_K lvl 35 Necromancer
> US East

Jason Moy

N2003's Damage Model

by Jason Moy » Wed, 18 Feb 2004 12:02:44


>I don't understand the hostility.  

ARE YOU STUPID OR SOMETHING?  GRRRR.

(hi kidding)

Jason

Shoc

N2003's Damage Model

by Shoc » Wed, 18 Feb 2004 12:36:03



All the problems with the damage model were a top priority in Papyrus for
NR2004, but thanks to Nascar signing the deal with the devil (EA) we will
not have the pleasure of using the new sim.

Shock

Eldre

N2003's Damage Model

by Eldre » Wed, 18 Feb 2004 12:48:47



>Heck man I was rooting for ya.  Thought you may have it figured out coming
>to the end of the race.  All I saw was you spin then you disappeared so I
>cycled back through the front guys.  You and ZZ both had a great opportunity
>and Im always rooting the underdogs :-)  Nice race E.

I can *usually* do well in SS races, assuming I can maintain the draft, and
stay out of trouble.  My lack of skill doesn't hurt me too much there.  If I
run any more races, I'm sure I'll take up my normal position at the end of the
grid...
I absolutely *hate* the Rock - grrr....

Eldred
--
http://www.umich.edu/~epickett
Screamers League
IICC League
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JP

N2003's Damage Model

by JP » Wed, 18 Feb 2004 12:51:37




> > Has anyone from Papyrus ever *definitively* explained how the damage
model
> > works in their games?

> > It seems so damn random, and has very little to do with how you treat
the
> > car. Also, there's that ridiculous *feature* where the front of the car
is
> > crumpled if the back end hits the wall. Engines being damaged when
tapped
> in
> > the rear. Neat stuff like that.

> > We lined up in the pits at the start of our RASCAR race yesterday, and
> when
> > I put my car into first (without ever even revving up the engine), it
was
> > already lost. How in the hell do you lose first gear before you've even
> > rolled an inch out of the pits to start the race???

> > In F1C, if you hit something with the LF wheel, the LF wheel is damaged.
> If
> > you hit something with the front or back spoiler, the spoiler is
damaged.
> > Makes sense.

> > Far too often, N2003's damage model doesn't seem to make any sense at
all.

> > David G Fisher

> All the problems with the damage model were a top priority in Papyrus for
> NR2004, but thanks to Nascar signing the deal with the devil (EA) we will
> not have the pleasure of using the new sim.

> Shock

   Lol, yeah who'd a thunk they couldn't have got it right in their
umptienth version, eh ?

- Show quoted text -

David G Fishe

N2003's Damage Model

by David G Fishe » Wed, 18 Feb 2004 13:09:00



> > A real race car driver gets paid ridiculous amounts of money to race. If
> > his car breaks down on Sunday for some unknown reason, he should still
> > be a very happy man the rest of the week. When I race once a week, and
> > my virtual car has a break down due to random damage modeling in N2003,
> > I'm not happy.
> > Give me that real money, and I'll put sponsor stickers all over my ass
> > and run around wearing a big smile on my face no matter what happens.
> > You won't hear a complaint from me about the damage model ever again.

> I don't recall a big pay cheque when my Kadett GT/E lunched its engine
> after 30 competitive miles. It is not all glamour, David - the majority of
> club racers spend a lot more than they earn!

> Agree you should be able to turn off the random damage in a sim though...

> Cheers
> Tony

I was referring to a real NASCAR race car driver, since it's a NASCAR sim.

David G Fisher

Shoc

N2003's Damage Model

by Shoc » Wed, 18 Feb 2004 13:59:27






> > > Has anyone from Papyrus ever *definitively* explained how the damage
> model
> > > works in their games?

> > > It seems so damn random, and has very little to do with how you treat
> the
> > > car. Also, there's that ridiculous *feature* where the front of the
car
> is
> > > crumpled if the back end hits the wall. Engines being damaged when
> tapped
> > in
> > > the rear. Neat stuff like that.

> > > We lined up in the pits at the start of our RASCAR race yesterday, and
> > when
> > > I put my car into first (without ever even revving up the engine), it
> was
> > > already lost. How in the hell do you lose first gear before you've
even
> > > rolled an inch out of the pits to start the race???

> > > In F1C, if you hit something with the LF wheel, the LF wheel is
damaged.
> > If
> > > you hit something with the front or back spoiler, the spoiler is
> damaged.
> > > Makes sense.

> > > Far too often, N2003's damage model doesn't seem to make any sense at
> all.

> > > David G Fisher

> > All the problems with the damage model were a top priority in Papyrus
for
> > NR2004, but thanks to Nascar signing the deal with the devil (EA) we
will
> > not have the pleasure of using the new sim.

> > Shock

>    Lol, yeah who'd a thunk they couldn't have got it right in their
> umptienth version, eh ?

For a relatively small company they did a very respectable job.  It is the
closest thing we have to a perfect Nascar simulator right now and it will
continue to be the best for a long time to come.

Shock

Mitch_

N2003's Damage Model

by Mitch_ » Wed, 18 Feb 2004 14:31:12

So youre going to short change yourself a great sim because of a flawed
idealogy?  That's real smart...  Where I live money talks and BS walks, so
how about blaming Papy/Sierra/Vivendi/whoever else for not investing the
hard earned money I paid for every single product they EVER released and
pony up to Nascar as they should have.  What the hell has EA to do with
that?

I'd imagine there are quite a few guys that will run NR2003 for years just
like GPLrs still race regularly with much enjoyment.  If we never had
another Nascar sim I'd be right there with ya'll but I want something better
than NR2003 and I dont give a flyin f*&k who makes it.  Thunder04 is getting
close and I hope 05 surpasses that.

Mitch

damage model were a top priority in Papyrus for

ymenar

N2003's Damage Model

by ymenar » Wed, 18 Feb 2004 14:26:34


> The IICC league I'm in ran a 'no-damage' race as a test, and several cars
STILL
> had funky mechanical failures.  Something is pretty weird about the

damage...

Gee, random failures and mech damage even with no-damage checks.  I've seen
this since Nascar Racing 1.  People have said this here on r.a.s for all
these days.  Papy always denied it happened.  They said they couldn't
reproduce such things in testing.

Not that it's a bad thing, to have those random failures.  It's just always
gets you when you least want it to happen, like when leading the field <G>

--
-- Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard>
-- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimago-Dominguez
Corporation - helping America into the New World...

Mitch_

N2003's Damage Model

by Mitch_ » Wed, 18 Feb 2004 14:50:43

At least if I make you mad I don't have to worry about getting wrecked out
<vbseg>.



> >I don't understand the hostility.

> ARE YOU STUPID OR SOMETHING?  GRRRR.

> (hi kidding)

> Jason

David G Fishe

N2003's Damage Model

by David G Fishe » Wed, 18 Feb 2004 16:29:07




> >Ok, but why did it have to happen to me? ;-)
> >I was on my way to only my 2nd league win ever, in any sim. My first came
> >when I was in 2nd place and the leader had to stop and feed his son.

> Hehe...
> I *wondered* what happened to you.  I'm guessing you were the car that was
> smoking?
> Hell, I spun out of first place.  Low on fuel, knew I needed to make a
stop.
> The car sputtered coming towards pit in, and I made a snap decision to pit
> right then.  The snap spin that followed was funny to Mitch, I'm
sure...<g>

> Dave, what happened to you?  You let me get my lap back(thanks), then next
time
> I saw your car(caution flag) you were in 4th?

> Eldred

I was a lap and a half short of fuel, so I had to pit.

Ginger and I had some minor damage, so you being in the front of our three
car group was the best way to go. Mitch and I were discussing it on TS. I
actually screwed up though and didn't let Ginger have his lap back when the
yellow came out.

David G FIsher

Joachim Trens

N2003's Damage Model

by Joachim Trens » Wed, 18 Feb 2004 17:32:59



> ...

>> Ok, but why did it have to happen to me? ;-)

> Maybe the laws of probability struck back to counter-balance your first
> league win when that leader had to feed his son ;)

> Achim

Daughter. <g>

Achim


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