Yep, that's how I see it as well. Mainly abuse, with a small randomness
factor added.
Achim
-----------------------------------------------------
Ok, how do you abuse an ignition? At Daytona? Your on the gas the whole
time.
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Richard "ZZ" Busch
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> It seems so damn random, and has very little to do with how you treat
> the car. Also, there's that ridiculous *feature* where the front of
> the car is crumpled if the back end hits the wall. Engines being
> damaged when tapped in the rear. Neat stuff like that.
> We lined up in the pits at the start of our RASCAR race yesterday,
> and when I put my car into first (without ever even revving up the
> engine), it was already lost. How in the hell do you lose first gear
> before you've even rolled an inch out of the pits to start the race???
> In F1C, if you hit something with the LF wheel, the LF wheel is
> damaged. If you hit something with the front or back spoiler, the
> spoiler is damaged. Makes sense.
> Far too often, N2003's damage model doesn't seem to make any sense at
> all.
> David G Fisher
That's where the small randomness factor comes in, of course <g>
Achim
And yeah, if you noticed during the accident midway through the race
yesterday, there were cars that backed into the wall at speeds which
would cause minimal damage in N2003 and they were unable to fire the
engines back up! But that's because backing into a wall doesn't do
anything that would effect the performance of the engine (like
damaging the fuel system, the drivetrain, and even the block itself as
it absorbs the energy being transferred through the chassis on
impact).
Things you learn if you actually watch the races, eh?
Jason
That's where the small randomness factor comes in, of course <g>
Achim
---------------------------------
Ok, but why did it have to happen to me? ;-)
I was on my way to only my 2nd league win ever, in any sim. My first came
when I was in 2nd place and the leader had to stop and feed his son.
--
Richard "ZZ" Busch
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> >At least they moved an inch before their engines blew.
> Mark drove how many laps before his engine exploded? 5? If, as you
> say, it's "bad programming" if an engine fails for a reason other than
> abuse, than clearly Mark needs to go yell at some programmers. The
> manner in which he and Burton exited the race yesterday was completely
> unrealistic. (As far as engines being DOA you might want to give Greg
> Biffle a call).
> And yeah, if you noticed during the accident midway through the race
> yesterday, there were cars that backed into the wall at speeds which
> would cause minimal damage in N2003 and they were unable to fire the
> engines back up! But that's because backing into a wall doesn't do
> anything that would effect the performance of the engine (like
> damaging the fuel system, the drivetrain, and even the block itself as
> it absorbs the energy being transferred through the chassis on
> impact).
> Things you learn if you actually watch the races, eh?
> Jason
> > On Mon, 16 Feb 2004 02:56:14 -0500, "David G Fisher"
> > >At least they moved an inch before their engines blew.
> > Mark drove how many laps before his engine exploded? 5? If, as you
> > say, it's "bad programming" if an engine fails for a reason other than
> > abuse, than clearly Mark needs to go yell at some programmers. The
> > manner in which he and Burton exited the race yesterday was completely
> > unrealistic. (As far as engines being DOA you might want to give Greg
> > Biffle a call).
> > And yeah, if you noticed during the accident midway through the race
> > yesterday, there were cars that backed into the wall at speeds which
> > would cause minimal damage in N2003 and they were unable to fire the
> > engines back up! But that's because backing into a wall doesn't do
> > anything that would effect the performance of the engine (like
> > damaging the fuel system, the drivetrain, and even the block itself as
> > it absorbs the energy being transferred through the chassis on
> > impact).
> > Things you learn if you actually watch the races, eh?
> > Jason
> Wrong again. When those cars won't fire in those situations it has
> nothing to do with damage. They're not made to idle/power cutoff like
that,
> and they usually get flooded among other things. Carbs ya know.
> Its the same reason, during a red flag, you'll see them park with their
> nose pointed downhill; in case the engine won't fire.
> >At least they moved an inch before their engines blew.
> Mark drove how many laps before his engine exploded? 5?
My gear was gone (not engine) before I moved an inch, or even pressed the
accelerator pedal.
JP explained this to you in another post.
If Papyrus wants to throw in random damage, that's fine, but they should
absolutely put in the option to disable it like in F1C and Thunder. You can
set the damage level in those sims to none, normal, time scaled, or to
represent what happened in a particular season.
A real race car driver gets paid ridiculous amounts of money to race. If his
car breaks down on Sunday for some unknown reason, he should still be a very
happy man the rest of the week. When I race once a week, and my virtual car
has a break down due to random damage modeling in N2003, I'm not happy. Give
me that real money, and I'll put sponsor stickers all over my ass and run
around wearing a big smile on my face no matter what happens. You won't hear
a complaint from me about the damage model ever again.
David G Fisher
> > On Mon, 16 Feb 2004 00:50:05 GMT, "Jan Verschueren"
> > >It's not optimum, but, if it's truly random damage, how come it always
> hits
> > >Dave, or Mitch or Larry and not one of the other, more mechanically
> > >sympathetic drivers in RASCAR like me?
> > "Because you're lucky"
> > Jan, it's a lost cause. You could be spending this time racing TPTCC2
> > with us on Sierra.
> > Jason
> He's not "lucky", he's wrong. It's absolutely, positively, 100% wrong for
> him to say that I've lost gears more than most others, and to imply it's
> becaue I've been hard or wild with my shifting.
> 12 RASCAR Winter Series road course races. Lost one gear.
> I'm sure you read my reply to Jan's post, but you choose to act like you
> didn't.
> Same old r.a.s.
> David G Fisher.
bluestringer
Agree you should be able to turn off the random damage in a sim though...
Cheers
Tony
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Ooops. Sorry Tony, it was quite a while ago. How is the little princess?
--
Richard "ZZ" Busch
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No offense, but I play sims because I want something that bears some
resemblance to reality. Papy's damage model has faults, but those
faults make it much less demanding than I personally would like it to
be. I'd like to see fenders rubbing from wall or side to side
contact, radiators cracking, explosions from fuel line ruptures,
random engine failures (not saying they don't exist, I've just never
had my engine let go unless I was abusing it). If the sim were as
demanding as reality, you would very rarely be able to continue after
most incidents in the game, and in the cases that you did you'd be
staring at your monitor for an hour and a half while your crew pounded
on the car.
I will concede that Papy should have added an option to disable random
failures (wasn't this an option in the pre-GPL days?). But if you
want to be able to drive recklessly and not suffer the consequences
just turn the damage off or set it to moderate (and I honestly can't
say I've seen random failures occur with either setting).
It disgusts me that people sit on this newsgroup and argue about
realism, and then complain when realistic things occur in a sim. That
makes no sense at all to me. There's no shame in simply wanting to
have fun driving a car, and if that's the case you're in luck because
a vast majority of racing titles are geared towards that mindset.
Jason
Eldred
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Ok, that makes sense<g>
Eldred
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