rec.autos.simulators

F1

Eldre

F1

by Eldre » Wed, 04 Jul 2001 05:36:25





>> A early 70's Sim would be incredible....just enough downforce to make
>> you feel invincible and just enough horsepower to scare the shit out
>> of an insane man. When did they stop racing the Ring...? The last year
>> they raced the Ring would be great...

>Say that to Nicki Lauda's face...

>John

I think he just means that 'era'.  With a sim, we don't have to worry about the
consequences of a terrible accident.  I don't think that takes anything away
from(or adds to) Lauda's troubles.

Eldred
--
Dale Earnhardt, Sr. R.I.P. 1951-2001
Homepage - http://www.racesimcentral.net/~epickett
F1 hcp. +16.36...Monster +366.59...

Never argue with an idiot.  He brings you down to his level, then beats you
with experience...
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BRH

F1

by BRH » Wed, 04 Jul 2001 12:25:35

I believe you are correct.  Pitstop.  I remember having the Atari
(computer) version.  That was eons ago........




> >hey, I know that one.  that's the one where the tyres changed color as
> >they were worn, right?
> Pitstop & Pitstop 2, if i'm not mistaken.  The second one was a
> classic IMO.  2 player splitscreen.  lotta fun for its day.   Its nice
> how graphics have improved :)

--
Bert
Pierre Legra

F1

by Pierre Legra » Wed, 04 Jul 2001 13:41:18

Sure I would say that to his face...why not...? He knew the risks and
decided to roll the dice. I raced Open Class Desert Bikes for a long
time...I knew the risks and had I seriously injured myself (well more
seriously than the head injuries and knee injuries) I wouldnt resent
anyone for wanting to safely relive those days. Indeed by making a sim
of those days we in a small way honor their commitment.

I dont think Nicki sits around crying about what might have been.

PAPA DOC

Pierre PAPA DOC Legrand
Flanker Target
Grand Prix Legends Crash Test Dummy
Rants, Bullshit and Help Guides availible at
www.papadoc.net

David G Fishe

F1

by David G Fishe » Wed, 04 Jul 2001 17:50:43

Do you own F1RC?

David G Fisher


Jan Verschuere

F1

by Jan Verschuere » Wed, 04 Jul 2001 18:46:41

Ok Dave,

let's get serious for a moment. Because I've now had the F1RC box in my
hands twice and thought better of it because of all the negative comments.
Can you honestly say, hand on your heart, that the retail version of F1RC,
now on sale in mainland Europe should work? -Not the something you have
through beta testing or connections to review sites, but the one I can go
buy at my main street store today.

If so, I'll go get it and give it a fair shot.

Jan.
=---
"Pay attention when I'm talking to you boy!" -Foghorn Leghorn.

Nodd

F1

by Nodd » Wed, 04 Jul 2001 19:24:07

On Tue, 3 Jul 2001 11:46:41 +0200, "Jan Verschueren"


>Ok Dave,

>let's get serious for a moment. Because I've now had the F1RC box in my
>hands twice and thought better of it because of all the negative comments.
>Can you honestly say, hand on your heart, that the retail version of F1RC,
>now on sale in mainland Europe should work? -Not the something you have
>through beta testing or connections to review sites, but the one I can go
>buy at my main street store today.

>If so, I'll go get it and give it a fair shot.

>Jan.

I wouldn't listen to him no matter what he tells you. He is clearly
biased. F1RC is a joke in it's curent state.
Thom j

F1

by Thom j » Wed, 04 Jul 2001 21:51:39

Dont answer Graeme!! If he doesnt know your history
or you then shame on him! :-) Btw: CART!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

| Do you own F1RC?
| David G Fisher

---
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John Zumste

F1

by John Zumste » Thu, 05 Jul 2001 00:37:07

Yes, true in my case -- I am an old guy pining away for those days... I
started following F1 when Fangio was still driving! I continued
following it avidly through the loss of favorite drivers and changing
regulations, but more and more lost interest as more and more the skill
of the driver became less important. When it became clear that a race
could be won or lost in the pits, I gave it up pretty much completely.

I know that today's F1 drivers are incredibily skilled, but it seems to
me, from the little I have followed it over the last few years, that
it's about 90% car and pit crew, and 10% driver. Many fans may like that
ratio, but me? Yes, I do pine for the days when Sterling Moss could step
into a privateer car and be competitive, if not win outright.

John

David G Fishe

F1

by David G Fishe » Thu, 05 Jul 2001 06:25:49

Your post isn't showing up on my reader Jan, so I'll respond here.

There are people who are pissing and moaning about the AI, and the need for
a patch. Just like they did for two months with N4. If I liked NASCAR, I
still would of bought N4 because I expect those type of complaints from a
certain % of sim racers with EVERY release. Yes, it's been three months now
since F1RC's release, and they are now taking too long to release the patch.
Their old approach was better (still, people complained that they released
too many patches instead of just one or two main ones).

I didn't beta test F1RC or get a copy through a connection with a review
site. I bought it online, and it works just fine on my system. The AI only
has problems OCCASIONALLY at the start (like real life). If you can drive
the car at 98% of it's limit or better,hold your line and hit your braking
points (like you'd need to do in real life), then the AI is fine, and often
excellent (chasing Schumacher is a thrill). The attrition rate is the same
as in real life. I have no problems with the graphics/audio/controller/lock
ups/blue screens/etc. I rarely have a problem running anything actually.
People junk up their systems with drivers, etc. which cause most problems
IMO.

There are plenty of positive comments about F1RC out there in *** space,
and an awful lot of people seem to be playing it considering all the web
sites and it's popularity at the HG forums. Txl just posted here today how
he thinks F1RC is way ahead of the other modern F1 sims. Are you familiar
with Ian Bell? He even has a negative GPL rank!  :-)  Here are his comments
from awhile back which I posted and maybe you never saw. They're a good
example of a person who was willing to move beyond first impressions and
admit they were wrong in their initial public comments. Something you rarely
see here at r.a.s.

Anyway, if you don't like it, just take it back to the store.
------------------------
Hi all.
To anyone who was influenced by my earlier post regarding this game or got
second thoughts about buying it based on my gripes, I would like to say that
I was wrong!

The game gets better every minute. Aside from the crashes and blue screens,
it is close to perfect.

I worked the setups to the point where I have a car that's catchable when
oversteering and it's awesome!

Apologies to everyone I had the debate with, you were right, and I jumped in
too soon.

In my defence, all the classic sims have that 'grow on you' factor and this
ones growing like a baby.

It's the variations in handling that really sealed it for me and it's this
area that in my view lifts the game above GP3 as a sim. (Never thought I'd
say that)
You could compare GP3 to a Flight Sim 2000 where the Concorde handles like
the Cessna, a bit of a cop out. This is what a sim is all about - exploring
the nuances of each car, learning it's foibles and strengths. It's what GPL
does and it adds almost infinte variety to the game.

For those who tried F1RC and tossed it away early, I suggest you give it
some time, it's ***y excellent. This SIM is very similar
to GPL in the manner in which it feeds back information regarding stepping
over the edge. In GPL, if the tyres aren't screaming you generally aren't
going fast enough. So when the rear gives way you see it through the visual
change in the angle of attack of the tub to the road and in the suspension
movements. You had the tyre screaching before it gave way, so it's not that.
Now, in F1RC, the tyres don't screach until you have passed the limit. The
screach could be a bit louder, and they seem not to squeel until they are
*** out precariously and almost uncatchable. So like GPL, the feedback I
take the cue from is the angle of the monocoque to the road. Unlike GPL,
this happens in an instant and you must react much more quickly. Also the
suspension arms don't move much.

Changing the setups helped a lot, I'll be posting them to Jure soon and in
the meantime I'll just post the Setups with my record laps (assuming I get
any more ) so they will be necessarily a little precarious.

OK, CRUX OF THE SOLUTION: The snap oversteer which is almost uncontrollable
is caused by some of the default setups riding the packers in the fast
turns. As soonas the car rides them it snaps into almost uncontrollable
oversteer. Very Realistic, a bit like turn 5 at Brazil in GP3 if you touch
the left curbing.
In the slow stuff, the oversteer is caused by 2 factors:
1: As above, the gear ratios can be tweaked to move the power band out of
the slow stuff, and/or you can change to another gear.
2: The stock setups have a very soft front end and a stiff rear (a recipe
for oversteer)

Finally, just to reiterate, this SIM is amazing, the Mclaren has better
handling in the fast stuff due to superior aerodynamics (Well, they do have
Newey in the team ) and the Ferrari has more mechanical grip which shows
itself in the slow stuff. You can brake a little later in the Mclaren. The
Ferrari needs a higher rideheight, etc etc, absolutely excellent.

Sorry to go on.

Ian Bell
GPLRank -16.8
--------------------------
David G Fisher


> On Tue, 3 Jul 2001 11:46:41 +0200, "Jan Verschueren"

> >Ok Dave,

> >let's get serious for a moment. Because I've now had the F1RC box in my
> >hands twice and thought better of it because of all the negative
comments.
> >Can you honestly say, hand on your heart, that the retail version of
F1RC,
> >now on sale in mainland Europe should work? -Not the something you have
> >through beta testing or connections to review sites, but the one I can go
> >buy at my main street store today.

> >If so, I'll go get it and give it a fair shot.

> >Jan.

> I wouldn't listen to him no matter what he tells you. He is clearly
> biased. F1RC is a joke in it's curent state.

David G Fishe

F1

by David G Fishe » Thu, 05 Jul 2001 06:46:13

If you go back that far, then your excused to whine about the old days. :-)

The cars today accelerate from 0-100 in 4.3 secs, and brake from 150-0 in 80
meters. That severely limits the opportunities to race like they did in the
past, and requires perfection from the drivers. An Indy car needs 170 meters
to do the same. Modern F1 cars are using grooved tires an less downforce
than in the past, and yet the drivers are still breaking lap records. The
current F1 drivers are the most skilled racers in the world. If you want the
older style of racing, then F1 would have to impose severe limits on the use
of technology. I don't like the idea of trying to make racing more
helter-skelter by artificially evening out the field like in NASCAR.

BTW, Verstappen had passed 89 drivers in the first 8 races, so I think the
claim by some of F1 being a "parade" is a huge exaggeration. Television
coverage might be thye cause of that impression. People who get the digital
feed seem to have a different opinion. Anyway, I'd rather see one critical
pass in F1 than 50 bogus passes in, again, NASCAR.

David G Fisher


istof

F1

by istof » Thu, 05 Jul 2001 17:28:42



*informative post snipped*

DGF seems to be a person who just has to post something to be flamed.

Maybe he is just that kind of guy.

Personally, although I regard GPL as the best game I have,  I have to
say I like F1RC a lot.

It occasionally crashes when I exit the game, but inside the game it
works without ever crashing / blue screens, etc.

I have to manually set my pedals initially after loading it as it
seems to swap the brake / accelerator pedals around if I don't.

Playing the game is great fun and because I enjoy hotlapping more than
full length races, i don't notice the AI problems much.

The AI problems seem to be all related to avoiding accidents or
erratic driving so if you are smooth(ish) and don't brake too early,
you are safe.  They do tend to take each other out in wet weather and
sometimes all the cars bunch up unable to overtake a crashed car and
make a huge pile-up.  I've seen this happen (or more likely caused it
to happen) in Nascar 4 as well, although I do admit it happens more
often in F1RC than in any other racing game.

Driving the same tracks in GP3 & F1RC convinced me that F1RC was the
way to go.  Maybe it was the way that track camber and altitude is
conveyed just seemed more realistic.  The FF seemed to be more subtle,
but thats entirely subjective as is most of this post.

Its worth a try in my opinion.  Use your warranty if you don't like
it.   To all those people sniping about it and insulting it, all I can
say is.  If you haven't played it or tried it, why bash it?  There are
those of you who have played it and highlighted what you don't like
about it.  Good for you.  I respect your opinion.

ah well.  let me steel myself for the abuse that F1RC players
inevitably get.

On another note, I'll be posting the next version of my gplflagman
utility today.  I'm going to make the zip password one of:

i love f1rc
dgf is such a reasonable guy
michael schumacher is very sporting

Regards all,
istoff

"Its easy to get lost in thought
if you don't go there often"    - Me, 1993

Eldre

F1

by Eldre » Fri, 06 Jul 2001 01:30:52


>The AI problems seem to be all related to avoiding accidents or
>erratic driving so if you are smooth(ish) and don't brake too early,
>you are safe.  

So you have to be at some minimun skill level to get any enjoyment out of it?
That would suck...

Eldred
--
Dale Earnhardt, Sr. R.I.P. 1951-2001
Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett
F1 hcp. +16.36...Monster +366.59...

Never argue with an idiot.  He brings you down to his level, then beats you
with experience...
Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

chainbreake

F1

by chainbreake » Fri, 06 Jul 2001 02:07:32



> >The AI problems seem to be all related to avoiding accidents or
> >erratic driving so if you are smooth(ish) and don't brake too early,
> >you are safe.

> So you have to be at some minimun skill level to get any enjoyment out of
it?
> That would suck...

> Eldred
> --

That's the point I was getting at earlier.  *If* F1RC at all levels expects
the player to be this precise, then the sim is killing itself.  It's sort of
like a dog chasing its tail--

"In order to keep the AI from crashing you, you have to practice and get
good enough to keep that from happening."

"But I *can't* practice with the AI because I'm not good enough to keep it
from crashing me."

Not many people have frustration levels set high enough to tolerate a
situation like this very long.

Jerry Morelock

istof

F1

by istof » Fri, 06 Jul 2001 02:50:14



>>The AI problems seem to be all related to avoiding accidents or
>>erratic driving so if you are smooth(ish) and don't brake too early,
>>you are safe.  

>So you have to be at some minimun skill level to get any enjoyment out of it?
>That would suck...

>Eldred

I'm +180 in GPL.  I enjoy it plenty.  Its all relative I suppose.

Maybe I'm the exception. :)

Like a programmer who releases a program on schedule.  You weren't
expecting me to finish that util, remember Eldred :)

Regards all,
istoff

istof

F1

by istof » Fri, 06 Jul 2001 02:56:11

On Wed, 04 Jul 2001 17:07:32 GMT, "chainbreaker"


>That's the point I was getting at earlier.  *If* F1RC at all levels expects
>the player to be this precise, then the sim is killing itself.  It's sort of
>like a dog chasing its tail--

>"In order to keep the AI from crashing you, you have to practice and get
>good enough to keep that from happening."

>"But I *can't* practice with the AI because I'm not good enough to keep it
>from crashing me."

>Not many people have frustration levels set high enough to tolerate a
>situation like this very long.

>Jerry Morelock

Maybe I am think-skinned then.

I can't see the fuss really.  I've been playing to for about 2 months
now and I get more frustrated by the exit crash bug than anything
else.

Maybe I'm not as hard-core a sim racer as the rest of you are.  I
enjoy playing it.  I consider it a game and recreation.  It does
*that* job well enough for me to continue playing it.  I am p*ssed off
at the lack of patch / support , etc, but I haven't considered
uninstalling it.  I bought Nascar 4 the same day I bought F1RC.  That
was uninstalled after a few days and remained so until the patch came
out.  I haven't played it(n4) since installing the mea***er sound
patch.  I only have time for GPL (70%) and F1RC (30%).  Still learning
to drive both of them is keeping me occupied.

anyway.  maybe I'm a ***.

Regards all,
istoff


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