rec.autos.simulators

by **Richard Walke** » Thu, 27 Apr 2000 04:00:00

Hi all,

I'm trying to get into GPL, but the poor graphics performance of my system
(K6/2 400, TNT2Ultra, 128MB RAM, SB Live!) is spoiling it for me. I am
using GPL 1.2 with the 'beta2' OpenGL rasteriser. I've seen similar
systems with Voodoo 1/2 cards, and the graphics are *so* much better.
Anyway, I can't afford to upgrade my CPU (to, say, an Athlon 700) so I'm
going to try and add in a Voodoo or Rendition card (just for GPL).

Do any Rendition cards work like old Voodoo cards? i.e. they are 3D-only,
and require an existing 2D card? Or do I have to go for a Voodoo 1/2?

Tricky bit: I use the TV-Out on my TNT2Ultra... since Voodoo 1/2 cards use
VGA pass-through cables, the TNT2Ultra TV-Out won't give me a Voodoo image,
will it? Is there a way around this? Are there 3D-only Rendition cards
which don't need a 'pass-through' cable? I don't suppose there are any
Voodoo 1/2 cards which don't need a 'pass-through' cable?

Oh, and where can I find any of these antique cards?!

Thanks in advance for any ideas,
--
Richard.

"Rocky Raccoon checked into his room Only to find Gideon's bible."

by **Remco Moe** » Thu, 27 Apr 2000 04:00:00

A Rendition card would run GPL great on your system, but it's a 2/3D
card. Rendition is also dead, you won't get DirectX7+ drivers for it,
and the Dx 6.1 drivers are just plain bad. Not an option IMO.

So, you need a V2-12Mb card OR a V3-2000 PCI card. Someone said you
can run the latter alongside any other card in your Windows Box. But
check that first before you spent your money. I would go for a V2 12Mb
card if I was in your position....

Remco

>Hi all,

>I'm trying to get into GPL, but the poor graphics performance of my system
>(K6/2 400, TNT2Ultra, 128MB RAM, SB Live!) is spoiling it for me. I am
>using GPL 1.2 with the 'beta2' OpenGL rasteriser. I've seen similar
>systems with Voodoo 1/2 cards, and the graphics are *so* much better.
>Anyway, I can't afford to upgrade my CPU (to, say, an Athlon 700) so I'm
>going to try and add in a Voodoo or Rendition card (just for GPL).

>Do any Rendition cards work like old Voodoo cards? i.e. they are 3D-only,
>and require an existing 2D card? Or do I have to go for a Voodoo 1/2?

>Tricky bit: I use the TV-Out on my TNT2Ultra... since Voodoo 1/2 cards use
>VGA pass-through cables, the TNT2Ultra TV-Out won't give me a Voodoo image,
>will it? Is there a way around this? Are there 3D-only Rendition cards
>which don't need a 'pass-through' cable? I don't suppose there are any
>Voodoo 1/2 cards which don't need a 'pass-through' cable?

>Oh, and where can I find any of these antique cards?!

>Thanks in advance for any ideas,
>--
>Richard.

>"Rocky Raccoon checked into his room Only to find Gideon's bible."

by **BRH** » Thu, 27 Apr 2000 04:00:00

I agree with your assessment. If the original poster wanta to keep using his
current 2D card, he should get a 12 Meg V2-1000 (Voodoo2) for GPL, etc..

I use Voodo2 alongside an ATI All-in-Wonder card and there are no compatibility
problems. I don't use the TV out feature of the ATI, but I do use the TV in
(cable TV connection) and there's no problem.

The Voodoo2 will kick in only when needed. For non-Voodoo games/apps, your
original videocard will be used automatically.

> A Rendition card would run GPL great on your system, but it's a 2/3D
> card. Rendition is also dead, you won't get DirectX7+ drivers for it,
> and the Dx 6.1 drivers are just plain bad. Not an option IMO.

> So, you need a V2-12Mb card OR a V3-2000 PCI card. Someone said you
> can run the latter alongside any other card in your Windows Box. But
> check that first before you spent your money. I would go for a V2 12Mb
> card if I was in your position....

> Remco

> >Hi all,

> >I'm trying to get into GPL, but the poor graphics performance of my system
> >(K6/2 400, TNT2Ultra, 128MB RAM, SB Live!) is spoiling it for me. I am
> >using GPL 1.2 with the 'beta2' OpenGL rasteriser. I've seen similar
> >systems with Voodoo 1/2 cards, and the graphics are *so* much better.
> >Anyway, I can't afford to upgrade my CPU (to, say, an Athlon 700) so I'm
> >going to try and add in a Voodoo or Rendition card (just for GPL).

> >Do any Rendition cards work like old Voodoo cards? i.e. they are 3D-only,
> >and require an existing 2D card? Or do I have to go for a Voodoo 1/2?

> >Tricky bit: I use the TV-Out on my TNT2Ultra... since Voodoo 1/2 cards use
> >VGA pass-through cables, the TNT2Ultra TV-Out won't give me a Voodoo image,
> >will it? Is there a way around this? Are there 3D-only Rendition cards
> >which don't need a 'pass-through' cable? I don't suppose there are any
> >Voodoo 1/2 cards which don't need a 'pass-through' cable?

> >Oh, and where can I find any of these antique cards?!

> >Thanks in advance for any ideas,
> >--
> >Richard.

> >"Rocky Raccoon checked into his room Only to find Gideon's bible."

by **Martyn Danb** » Fri, 28 Apr 2000 04:00:00

Only downside at least here in Canada eh, is that a V1000 (v2) is the
same price as a V3 2000...

> I agree with your assessment. If the original poster wanta to keep using his
> current 2D card, he should get a 12 Meg V2-1000 (Voodoo2) for GPL, etc..

> I use Voodo2 alongside an ATI All-in-Wonder card and there are no compatibility
> problems. I don't use the TV out feature of the ATI, but I do use the TV in
> (cable TV connection) and there's no problem.

> The Voodoo2 will kick in only when needed. For non-Voodoo games/apps, your
> original videocard will be used automatically.

> > A Rendition card would run GPL great on your system, but it's a 2/3D
> > card. Rendition is also dead, you won't get DirectX7+ drivers for it,
> > and the Dx 6.1 drivers are just plain bad. Not an option IMO.

> > So, you need a V2-12Mb card OR a V3-2000 PCI card. Someone said you
> > can run the latter alongside any other card in your Windows Box. But
> > check that first before you spent your money. I would go for a V2 12Mb
> > card if I was in your position....

> > Remco

> > >Hi all,

> > >I'm trying to get into GPL, but the poor graphics performance of my system
> > >(K6/2 400, TNT2Ultra, 128MB RAM, SB Live!) is spoiling it for me. I am
> > >using GPL 1.2 with the 'beta2' OpenGL rasteriser. I've seen similar
> > >systems with Voodoo 1/2 cards, and the graphics are *so* much better.
> > >Anyway, I can't afford to upgrade my CPU (to, say, an Athlon 700) so I'm
> > >going to try and add in a Voodoo or Rendition card (just for GPL).

> > >Do any Rendition cards work like old Voodoo cards? i.e. they are 3D-only,
> > >and require an existing 2D card? Or do I have to go for a Voodoo 1/2?

> > >Tricky bit: I use the TV-Out on my TNT2Ultra... since Voodoo 1/2 cards use
> > >VGA pass-through cables, the TNT2Ultra TV-Out won't give me a Voodoo image,
> > >will it? Is there a way around this? Are there 3D-only Rendition cards
> > >which don't need a 'pass-through' cable? I don't suppose there are any
> > >Voodoo 1/2 cards which don't need a 'pass-through' cable?

> > >Oh, and where can I find any of these antique cards?!

> > >Thanks in advance for any ideas,
> > >--
> > >Richard.

> > >"Rocky Raccoon checked into his room Only to find Gideon's bible."

by **Brett C. Camma** » Fri, 28 Apr 2000 04:00:00

You can pick up a Voodoo2 1000 at CompUSA. I managed to catch a sale
at $79.95 and saved about $20.00. Combined with the $30.00 rebate
from 3dfx I got it for $50.00. This was just about two months ago.

Regards,
Brett C. Cammack
That's Racing! Motorsports
Pompano Beach, FL

by **Goy Larse** » Fri, 28 Apr 2000 04:00:00

> Hi all,

> I'm trying to get into GPL, but the poor graphics performance of my system
> (K6/2 400, TNT2Ultra, 128MB RAM, SB Live!) is spoiling it for me. I am
> using GPL 1.2 with the 'beta2' OpenGL rasteriser. I've seen similar
> systems with Voodoo 1/2 cards, and the graphics are *so* much better.
> Anyway, I can't afford to upgrade my CPU (to, say, an Athlon 700) so I'm
> going to try and add in a Voodoo or Rendition card (just for GPL).

> Do any Rendition cards work like old Voodoo cards? i.e. they are 3D-only,
> and require an existing 2D card? Or do I have to go for a Voodoo 1/2?

> Tricky bit: I use the TV-Out on my TNT2Ultra... since Voodoo 1/2 cards use
> VGA pass-through cables, the TNT2Ultra TV-Out won't give me a Voodoo image,
> will it? Is there a way around this? Are there 3D-only Rendition cards
> which don't need a 'pass-through' cable? I don't suppose there are any
> Voodoo 1/2 cards which don't need a 'pass-through' cable?

No there isn't, as far as I know, but Canopus made V2 cards with TV out,
and so did Quantum3D, problem with these cards is that you need t run
driver written for these cards specifically to make use of the TV out,
and Quantum3D hasn't released new drivers for ages, and I'm led to
believe that this is true for Canopus as well

I think the Canopus card may have been marketed as Miro in Europe.....

There was also some talk about Wicked 3D, not actually using the pass
through cable, but I've never seen this setup for myself, so I can't say
for sure...

3Dfx still sell the V1000, new and refurbished for a very reasonable
price, for Canopus (Total 3D ?) and Quantum3D Obsidian2, they can be
found on ebay, they are however somewhat pricey, I paid about 150$ for
my Obsidian, but that was my only option for a V2 SLI setup as I only
had one free PCI slot, so in your case, the Canopus would probably be a
better choice, but be aware, they came in 2 flavors, with and without TV
out, so make sure you read the description carefully

Beers and cheers
(uncle) Goy

"Team Mirage" http://www.teammirage.com/
"The Pits" http://www.theuspits.com/

* Spam is for losers who can't get business any other way *
"Spamkiller" http://www.spamkiller.com

by **Richard Walke** » Fri, 28 Apr 2000 04:00:00

Aw! :-(

Well, as it's just for GPL, I'd settle for a Voodoo 2. I don't have
mega-bucks to spend on it!

My only problem now is that the TNTUltra TV-Out will obviously not display
the picture generated from the Voodoo 2... :-(

Thanks for the information.

--
Richard.

"I am the eggman, they are the eggmen. I am the walrus, goo goo g'joob."

by **Richard Walke** » Fri, 28 Apr 2000 04:00:00

It looks like I'll be doing juse that then!

I see, but obviosly, if you did use the ATI TV-Out, you wouldn't get any
Voodoo 2 image, would you?

Apart from that niggle, I'm quite set to find a Voodoo 2.

--
Richard.

"You think you lost your love, when I saw her yesterday."

by :) » Sun, 30 Apr 2000 04:00:00

how about a voodoo 3 3000 w. tv out???

by **Richard Walke** » Mon, 01 May 2000 04:00:00

> > I'm trying to get into GPL, but the poor graphics performance of my
> > system (K6/2 400, TNT2Ultra, 128MB RAM, SB Live!) is spoiling it for
> > me. I am using GPL 1.2 with the 'beta2' OpenGL rasteriser. I've seen
> > similar systems with Voodoo 1/2 cards, and the graphics are *so* much
> > better. Anyway, I can't afford to upgrade my CPU (to, say, an Athlon
> > 700) so I'm going to try and add in a Voodoo or Rendition card (just
> > for GPL).

> how about a voodoo 3 3000 w. tv out???

Ideally, yeah, that would be a good plan, but:

1) A Voodoo 3 with TV-Out would cost lots.

2) Is the Voodoo TV-Out any good?

3) My TNT2Ultra card would go to waste.

I realise that a Voodoo 3 (with TV-Out) is probably the best way, but for
the three problems above.

Someone mentioned a 'Direct3D rasterizer' here the other day... is this for
real? Whoever is developing such a thing, *please* let me test it!!!

I *really* want to get into GPL, but the shoddy graphics performace stops
me. :-(

--
Richard.

"We all live in a yellow submarine, yellow submarine, yellow submarine."

by **Jan Verschuere** » Mon, 01 May 2000 04:00:00

Hope you don't mind me saying this Richard (as you helped me out in another
thread and stuff), but I think you're going about it the wrong way.

I found a game I liked and changed my hardware to suit. You found a piece of
hardware you liked and want to change the game to suit... a lot harder, as
you depend on others to "patch" the game. Maybe just me, but "patch" doesn't
sound as slick as "out of the box" to me.

Jan.
=---

by **Dave Henri** » Mon, 01 May 2000 04:00:00

Don't get the V3. Try one or two V2 1000's. They will work WITH
your TNT2. AND they are Cheap. A Rendition card shouldn't even
be considered. They are at the limit of their technology.
Only if you had an old P166 or P200 lying around should you think
about building a VERY cheap box with edo memory and a Renditon. for ICR2
or N99.
Until the D3d thing is done, none of us will know how well it works.
FWIW...the Opgengl beta patch has been in beta status for almost 2
years.
dave henrie

> > > I'm trying to get into GPL, but the poor graphics performance of my
> > > system (K6/2 400, TNT2Ultra, 128MB RAM, SB Live!) is spoiling it for
> > > me. I am using GPL 1.2 with the 'beta2' OpenGL rasteriser. I've seen
> > > similar systems with Voodoo 1/2 cards, and the graphics are *so* much
> > > better. Anyway, I can't afford to upgrade my CPU (to, say, an Athlon
> > > 700) so I'm going to try and add in a Voodoo or Rendition card (just
> > > for GPL).

> > how about a voodoo 3 3000 w. tv out???

> Ideally, yeah, that would be a good plan, but:

> 1) A Voodoo 3 with TV-Out would cost lots.

> 2) Is the Voodoo TV-Out any good?

> 3) My TNT2Ultra card would go to waste.

> I realise that a Voodoo 3 (with TV-Out) is probably the best way, but for
> the three problems above.

> Someone mentioned a 'Direct3D rasterizer' here the other day... is this for
> real? Whoever is developing such a thing, *please* let me test it!!!

> I *really* want to get into GPL, but the shoddy graphics performace stops
> me. :-(

> --
> Richard.

> "We all live in a yellow submarine, yellow submarine, yellow submarine."

by **Richard Walke** » Mon, 01 May 2000 04:00:00

Yeah, I see what you mean, but I bought the TNT2Ultra quite a while before
I even considered buying GPL. A while ago, I did look at the GPL demo, but
it was just too hard, and I never gave it a second look. A month or so
ago, I saw the full game for 10ukp so thought I'd give it a whirl...

Obviously, knowning what I know now, I would have bought a Voodoo 3 card
(with TV-Out) and not a TNT2Ultra.

If possible, I'm going to upgrade my system to a Spitfire 750 in July, Aug,
or Sept. Hopefully that will help the TNT. I'd just like a solution in
the meantime though...

I bet you only think that because the OpenGL rasterizer (why does it get
called a 'patch'?) is so poor. If it was every bit as good as the 3dfx
rasterizer, then I don't think you would view it like that!

From what I see, the game seems to be designed to allow different
rasterizers to plug-in. Out of the box you get Rendition, 3dfx/Voodoo and
software. The Rendition and 3dfx ones are as good as each other, so I
don't see why the OpenGL one should be poor.

Similarly, I see no reason why a well-written Direct3D rasterizer should be
any worse than the Rendition or 3dfx ones.

--
Richard.

"C'mon... Please please me, whoa yeah, like I please you."

by **Richard Walke** » Mon, 01 May 2000 04:00:00

I think one card would do me!

Of course, the problem with this is that the image generated by the Voodoo
card(s) wouldn't display on the TV-Out of my TNT2Ultra. :-(

Ah! So something *is* being done, then?!

True, but I don't see why it couldn't be as good as the 3dfx or Rendition
rasterizers.

That is only becase it was a quick bodge by Papy. If they had poured in
the same effort as they did for the 3dfx/Rendition rasterizers, I reckon it
would be a lot better - possibly even non-beta. I'm sure they only mark
such things as beta so they don't get hassled for support anyway! :-)

--
Richard.

"Well, my heart went "boom", when I crossed that room."

by **Jan Verschuere** » Mon, 01 May 2000 04:00:00

> <snip>
> Yeah, I see what you mean, but I bought the TNT2Ultra quite a while before
> I even considered buying GPL. A while ago, I did look at the GPL demo,
but
> it was just too hard, and I never gave it a second look. A month or so
> ago, I saw the full game for 10ukp so thought I'd give it a whirl...

> Obviously, knowning what I know now, I would have bought a Voodoo 3 card
> (with TV-Out) and not a TNT2Ultra.

I'm hoping to "sit out" the current generation of cards and see how this
OpenGL vs Direct3d vs Glide thing pans out. Maybe, if in the mean time there
emerges a game which merits "playing it how it's meant to be played" (I
don't *need* the power of my current PC for what I do with it
professionally) I'll get "The Next Big Thing(tm)".

IMO you could do worse than getting a 2nd hand V2. A lot of Quakeheads are
chucking them in favour of GeForce based cards 'round here... dirt cheap.

<snip>

Oh... I was under the impression the "patch" talked to the 3dfx rasterizer
instead of directly to the game. Never mind, my fault.

Jan.
=---

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