rec.autos.simulators

by **Type7** » Tue, 28 Aug 2001 21:58:34

>Consider your CD key your sim-racing 'license' (with WON). Banning is
>like a 'clause' for bad driving - either deliberate or accidental -
>that if you are a menace on the track to others, your license is
>suspended/fined $50 - ie current game price. There's no cost for the
>license, it's included in the game you bought. Either way, if you get
>thrown off and have to repurchase the game it already IS pay for play.

>Described like this, I like this system. The big question of course
>is enforcement: how many wrecks and under what circumstances before
>the penalty is levied? Sooner or later we all make a mistake. I
>really wish Papy (or someone working with them) could setup something
>like that with a clearly defined set of rules and punishments.

>I haven't seen the replay discussed earlier, but as described (and
>having raced against Justin_M69) it certainly sounds justified to me.
>If the guy didn't know any better he just got a driving lesson for $50
>- when being overtaken by a much faster car, choose your lane and stay
>in it. NASCAR requires many things or they will park you - how strict
>should simracing on WON be? I don't think a driver will get banned
>for one mistake, obviously the Papy guy considered it deliberate.
>Perhaps there should be some system for appeal but so far the
>unofficial jury in r.a.s. seems to agree with Papy. Is there anyone
>who doesn't think a deliberate wrecker should be banned?

They should ban for 30 days and then reinstate their cd key. That will
soon teach the wreckers to behave without causing unintentional
wreckers to lose their priveleges permanently. Permanent arbitrary
banning is unfair and draconian.

by **Jack W. Rocchi** » Tue, 28 Aug 2001 23:40:57

yes, or make a sort of "wrecker-free" arear, if you got banned you cannot
race in the 'wrecker free' but you can still join some other races for 30
days, if you do not wreck in these races for 30 days then you are ok to race
everwhere afterwards, like woth the driving license, you get suspended but
after a while you can drive again.

> >Consider your CD key your sim-racing 'license' (with WON). Banning is
> >like a 'clause' for bad driving - either deliberate or accidental -
> >that if you are a menace on the track to others, your license is
> >suspended/fined $50 - ie current game price. There's no cost for the
> >license, it's included in the game you bought. Either way, if you get
> >thrown off and have to repurchase the game it already IS pay for play.

> >Described like this, I like this system. The big question of course
> >is enforcement: how many wrecks and under what circumstances before
> >the penalty is levied? Sooner or later we all make a mistake. I
> >really wish Papy (or someone working with them) could setup something
> >like that with a clearly defined set of rules and punishments.

> >I haven't seen the replay discussed earlier, but as described (and
> >having raced against Justin_M69) it certainly sounds justified to me.
> >If the guy didn't know any better he just got a driving lesson for $50
> >- when being overtaken by a much faster car, choose your lane and stay
> >in it. NASCAR requires many things or they will park you - how strict
> >should simracing on WON be? I don't think a driver will get banned
> >for one mistake, obviously the Papy guy considered it deliberate.
> >Perhaps there should be some system for appeal but so far the
> >unofficial jury in r.a.s. seems to agree with Papy. Is there anyone
> >who doesn't think a deliberate wrecker should be banned?

> They should ban for 30 days and then reinstate their cd key. That will
> soon teach the wreckers to behave without causing unintentional
> wreckers to lose their priveleges permanently. Permanent arbitrary
> banning is unfair and draconian.

by **Alex Kihuran** » Wed, 29 Aug 2001 00:01:31

How about you have to go to wrecker jail for 2 months? :) There's 1 Papy
server, and other private servers where it's a free for all and you can
wreck people as much as you want, or race, doesn't matter. Or, if your not a
wrecker, you can go to wrecker jail after a frustrating day and wreck some
people, lol. Maybe that would cut down on intentional wreckers too. Unless
they're simply out there to***others off.

Thanks,
Alex

> yes, or make a sort of "wrecker-free" arear, if you got banned you cannot
> race in the 'wrecker free' but you can still join some other races for 30
> days, if you do not wreck in these races for 30 days then you are ok to
race
> everwhere afterwards, like woth the driving license, you get suspended but
> after a while you can drive again.

> > >Consider your CD key your sim-racing 'license' (with WON). Banning is
> > >like a 'clause' for bad driving - either deliberate or accidental -
> > >that if you are a menace on the track to others, your license is
> > >suspended/fined $50 - ie current game price. There's no cost for the
> > >license, it's included in the game you bought. Either way, if you get
> > >thrown off and have to repurchase the game it already IS pay for play.

> > >Described like this, I like this system. The big question of course
> > >is enforcement: how many wrecks and under what circumstances before
> > >the penalty is levied? Sooner or later we all make a mistake. I
> > >really wish Papy (or someone working with them) could setup something
> > >like that with a clearly defined set of rules and punishments.

> > >I haven't seen the replay discussed earlier, but as described (and
> > >having raced against Justin_M69) it certainly sounds justified to me.
> > >If the guy didn't know any better he just got a driving lesson for $50
> > >- when being overtaken by a much faster car, choose your lane and stay
> > >in it. NASCAR requires many things or they will park you - how strict
> > >should simracing on WON be? I don't think a driver will get banned
> > >for one mistake, obviously the Papy guy considered it deliberate.
> > >Perhaps there should be some system for appeal but so far the
> > >unofficial jury in r.a.s. seems to agree with Papy. Is there anyone
> > >who doesn't think a deliberate wrecker should be banned?

> > They should ban for 30 days and then reinstate their cd key. That will
> > soon teach the wreckers to behave without causing unintentional
> > wreckers to lose their priveleges permanently. Permanent arbitrary
> > banning is unfair and draconian.

by **Jack W. Rocchi** » Wed, 29 Aug 2001 02:05:28

yes, seems a very good idea, anyway the point is that banning people
completely is totally shit...

> How about you have to go to wrecker jail for 2 months? :) There's 1 Papy
> server, and other private servers where it's a free for all and you can
> wreck people as much as you want, or race, doesn't matter. Or, if your not
a
> wrecker, you can go to wrecker jail after a frustrating day and wreck some
> people, lol. Maybe that would cut down on intentional wreckers too. Unless
> they're simply out there to***others off.

> Thanks,
> Alex

> > yes, or make a sort of "wrecker-free" arear, if you got banned you
cannot
> > race in the 'wrecker free' but you can still join some other races for
30
> > days, if you do not wreck in these races for 30 days then you are ok to
> race
> > everwhere afterwards, like woth the driving license, you get suspended
but
> > after a while you can drive again.

> > > >Consider your CD key your sim-racing 'license' (with WON). Banning
is
> > > >like a 'clause' for bad driving - either deliberate or accidental -
> > > >that if you are a menace on the track to others, your license is
> > > >suspended/fined $50 - ie current game price. There's no cost for the
> > > >license, it's included in the game you bought. Either way, if you
get
> > > >thrown off and have to repurchase the game it already IS pay for
play.

> > > >Described like this, I like this system. The big question of course
> > > >is enforcement: how many wrecks and under what circumstances before
> > > >the penalty is levied? Sooner or later we all make a mistake. I
> > > >really wish Papy (or someone working with them) could setup something
> > > >like that with a clearly defined set of rules and punishments.

> > > >I haven't seen the replay discussed earlier, but as described (and
> > > >having raced against Justin_M69) it certainly sounds justified to me.
> > > >If the guy didn't know any better he just got a driving lesson for
$50
> > > >- when being overtaken by a much faster car, choose your lane and
stay
> > > >in it. NASCAR requires many things or they will park you - how
strict
> > > >should simracing on WON be? I don't think a driver will get banned
> > > >for one mistake, obviously the Papy guy considered it deliberate.
> > > >Perhaps there should be some system for appeal but so far the
> > > >unofficial jury in r.a.s. seems to agree with Papy. Is there anyone
> > > >who doesn't think a deliberate wrecker should be banned?

> > > They should ban for 30 days and then reinstate their cd key. That will
> > > soon teach the wreckers to behave without causing unintentional
> > > wreckers to lose their priveleges permanently. Permanent arbitrary
> > > banning is unfair and draconian.

by **Dave Henri** » Wed, 29 Aug 2001 02:13:31

That kinda matches up with the Player Killing areas in some 'massive
multiplayer rpg's' You can go to a certain arena and kill & maim to your
hearts content. But try that in the main areas and the cops grab ya.
A wreckers server keeps it clean for us...gives those who unitentionally
caused wrecks a chance to get back on...and hopefully discourages the
wreckers guild.
The only drawback would again be if somebody in a weekly league had a bad
pickup race and got forced off the Won servers, it could really end thier
season.
dave henrie

> How about you have to go to wrecker jail for 2 months? :) There's 1 Papy
> server, and other private servers where it's a free for all and you can
> wreck people as much as you want, or race, doesn't matter. Or, if your not
a
> wrecker, you can go to wrecker jail after a frustrating day and wreck some
> people, lol. Maybe that would cut down on intentional wreckers too. Unless
> they're simply out there to***others off.

> Thanks,
> Alex

> > yes, or make a sort of "wrecker-free" arear, if you got banned you
cannot
> > race in the 'wrecker free' but you can still join some other races for
30
> > days, if you do not wreck in these races for 30 days then you are ok to
> race
> > everwhere afterwards, like woth the driving license, you get suspended
but
> > after a while you can drive again.

> > > >Consider your CD key your sim-racing 'license' (with WON). Banning
is
> > > >like a 'clause' for bad driving - either deliberate or accidental -
> > > >that if you are a menace on the track to others, your license is
> > > >suspended/fined $50 - ie current game price. There's no cost for the
> > > >license, it's included in the game you bought. Either way, if you
get
> > > >thrown off and have to repurchase the game it already IS pay for
play.

> > > >Described like this, I like this system. The big question of course
> > > >is enforcement: how many wrecks and under what circumstances before
> > > >the penalty is levied? Sooner or later we all make a mistake. I
> > > >really wish Papy (or someone working with them) could setup something
> > > >like that with a clearly defined set of rules and punishments.

> > > >I haven't seen the replay discussed earlier, but as described (and
> > > >having raced against Justin_M69) it certainly sounds justified to me.
> > > >If the guy didn't know any better he just got a driving lesson for
$50
> > > >- when being overtaken by a much faster car, choose your lane and
stay
> > > >in it. NASCAR requires many things or they will park you - how
strict
> > > >should simracing on WON be? I don't think a driver will get banned
> > > >for one mistake, obviously the Papy guy considered it deliberate.
> > > >Perhaps there should be some system for appeal but so far the
> > > >unofficial jury in r.a.s. seems to agree with Papy. Is there anyone
> > > >who doesn't think a deliberate wrecker should be banned?

> > > They should ban for 30 days and then reinstate their cd key. That will
> > > soon teach the wreckers to behave without causing unintentional
> > > wreckers to lose their priveleges permanently. Permanent arbitrary
> > > banning is unfair and draconian.

by **Don Jenning** » Wed, 29 Aug 2001 02:31:54

"John Hilsman" wrote ...

I doubt it very much, but I don't think that's the chief issue. Ask the question "Is there anyone out there who thinks a driver should be banned because one other driver gets pissed off at one incident?". We've had league races where one driver is severely ticked at another for ramming him twice, as shown on the server replay. On the replay from the "rammer" machine however, it's clear that it was warp as they never touched once. If Papy had this server replay on their server, I think they would conclude the wrecking was intentional, when it clearly wasn't. It seems to me that the way it's set up, the solution is more dangerous than the problem.

by **Thom j** » Wed, 29 Aug 2001 02:40:54

Doesnt it depend on if you are the "shit'ter or shit'tee"? :)

| yes, seems a very good idea, anyway the point is that banning people
| completely is totally shit...

---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.273 / Virus Database: 143 - Release Date: 8/16/2001

by **Thom j** » Wed, 29 Aug 2001 02:42:52

Oooooooo YummmmY!! "Gladiators" :)

| That kinda matches up with the Player Killing areas in some 'massive
| multiplayer rpg's' You can go to a certain arena and kill & maim to your
| hearts content. But try that in the main areas and the cops grab ya.
| A wreckers server keeps it clean for us...gives those who unitentionally
| caused wrecks a chance to get back on...and hopefully discourages the
| wreckers guild.
| The only drawback would again be if somebody in a weekly league had a
bad
| pickup race and got forced off the Won servers, it could really end thier
| season.
| dave henrie

---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.273 / Virus Database: 143 - Release Date: 8/16/2001

by **Thom j** » Wed, 29 Aug 2001 02:53:08

Question Don and anyone else, Once being part of a GPL league I never
saw any of this "Ok you hit me and I'm pissed so I'll wreck you attiude"
before. Why does it seem to be *so* prevalent in Nascar? btw: I was in
Eric Cote's league & he doesnt take any crap!! :)

I doubt it very much, but I don't think that's the chief issue. Ask the
question "Is there
anyone out there who thinks a driver should be banned because one other
driver gets pissed
off at one incident?". We've had league races where one driver is severely
ticked at another
for ramming him twice, as shown on the server replay. On the replay from
the "rammer"
machine however, it's clear that it was warp as they never touched once. If
Papy had this
server replay on their server, I think they would conclude the wrecking was
intentional, when it
clearly wasn't. It seems to me that the way it's set up, the solution is
more dangerous than the problem.

"John Hilsman" wrote ...

---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.273 / Virus Database: 143 - Release Date: 8/16/2001

by **Don Jenning** » Wed, 29 Aug 2001 05:21:45

"Thom j." wrote ...

For the same reason it's more prevalent in real life-- there's significantly more contact during the course of normal racing with stock cars, so the chances of tempers flaring are much higher. In any case, I wasn't talking about someone saying "you hit me so I'll wreck you", I was talking about someone upset that they'd been nailed a couple times and maybe getting their revenge by turning someone in as an "intentional wrecker" when it wasn't the case.

What it boils down to is that if I race on the Papy servers and***up, I'm completely at the mercy of the other drivers to be reasonable about it. A fair amount of judgement is required to make this deal work the way it should. Knowing that there are some pretty unreasonable people around, if I were in a league that used the public servers I don't think I'd dare spend a lot of time on the Papy loops.

by **Marc Collin** » Wed, 29 Aug 2001 06:23:12

That's a great suggestion.

Marc.

> yes, or make a sort of "wrecker-free" arear, if you got banned you cannot
> race in the 'wrecker free' but you can still join some other races for 30
> days, if you do not wreck in these races for 30 days then you are ok to
race
> everwhere afterwards, like woth the driving license, you get suspended but
> after a while you can drive again.

> > >Consider your CD key your sim-racing 'license' (with WON). Banning is
> > >like a 'clause' for bad driving - either deliberate or accidental -
> > >that if you are a menace on the track to others, your license is
> > >suspended/fined $50 - ie current game price. There's no cost for the
> > >license, it's included in the game you bought. Either way, if you get
> > >thrown off and have to repurchase the game it already IS pay for play.

> > >Described like this, I like this system. The big question of course
> > >is enforcement: how many wrecks and under what circumstances before
> > >the penalty is levied? Sooner or later we all make a mistake. I
> > >really wish Papy (or someone working with them) could setup something
> > >like that with a clearly defined set of rules and punishments.

> > >I haven't seen the replay discussed earlier, but as described (and
> > >having raced against Justin_M69) it certainly sounds justified to me.
> > >If the guy didn't know any better he just got a driving lesson for $50
> > >- when being overtaken by a much faster car, choose your lane and stay
> > >in it. NASCAR requires many things or they will park you - how strict
> > >should simracing on WON be? I don't think a driver will get banned
> > >for one mistake, obviously the Papy guy considered it deliberate.
> > >Perhaps there should be some system for appeal but so far the
> > >unofficial jury in r.a.s. seems to agree with Papy. Is there anyone
> > >who doesn't think a deliberate wrecker should be banned?

> > They should ban for 30 days and then reinstate their cd key. That will
> > soon teach the wreckers to behave without causing unintentional
> > wreckers to lose their priveleges permanently. Permanent arbitrary
> > banning is unfair and draconian.

by **Uncle Feste** » Wed, 29 Aug 2001 11:59:14

> Question Don and anyone else, Once being part of a GPL league I never
> saw any of this "Ok you hit me and I'm pissed so I'll wreck you attiude"
> before. Why does it seem to be *so* prevalent in Nascar? btw: I was in
> Eric Cote's league & he doesnt take any crap!! :)

Two theories on this one. 1) GPL draws generally upon an older crowd to
begin with, and 2) NASCAR tends to be more of an American crowd. We all
know how we 'Murikans get when we're behind the wheel in any of our
congested cities. Call this racing attitude "Sim-Road Rage".

--

Fester

by **Eldre** » Wed, 29 Aug 2001 13:21:32

> The only drawback would again be if somebody in a weekly league had a bad
>pickup race and got forced off the Won servers, it could really end thier
>season.

Like I said...<g>

Eldred
--
Dale Earnhardt, Sr. R.I.P. 1951-2001
Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett
F1 hcp. +16.36...Monster +366.59...

Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you
with experience...
Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

by **Dave Henri** » Wed, 29 Aug 2001 16:41:13

"> Two theories on this one. 1) GPL draws generally upon an older crowd to
That would make for an INTERESTING survey. Perhaps when Papy is done
banning folks, they could release the countries that most of the wreckers
came from. Could be a runaway...;)
dave henrie

by **Thom j** » Wed, 29 Aug 2001 19:02:13

hmmm? I just re-read this and sadly it doesnt say much for us 'Murikan
Nascar-4ers does it? No wonder the Euro folks trash us.. Now this will
really start an interesting discussion..lol :)

| That would make for an INTERESTING survey. Perhaps when Papy is done
| banning folks, they could release the countries that most of the wreckers
| came from. Could be a runaway...;)
| dave henrie
|
| "> Two theories on this one. 1) GPL draws generally upon an older crowd
to
| > begin with, and 2) NASCAR tends to be more of an American crowd. We all
| > know how we 'Murikans get when we're behind the wheel in any of our
| > congested cities. Call this racing attitude "Sim-Road Rage".
| >
| > Fester

---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.273 / Virus Database: 143 - Release Date: 8/16/2001

rec.autos.simulators

N4 Banning = pay-for-play?

N4 Banning = pay-for-play?

N4 Banning = pay-for-play?

N4 Banning = pay-for-play?

N4 Banning = pay-for-play?

N4 Banning = pay-for-play?

N4 Banning = pay-for-play?

N4 Banning = pay-for-play?

N4 Banning = pay-for-play?

N4 Banning = pay-for-play?

N4 Banning = pay-for-play?

N4 Banning = pay-for-play?

N4 Banning = pay-for-play?

N4 Banning = pay-for-play?

N4 Banning = pay-for-play?

N4 Banning = pay-for-play?