rec.autos.simulators

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I think Dave is saying clearly that Papyrus employees will not be allowed
to compete in the NRL...

As for IVGA staff being allowed to race in the NRL, maybe if you give all
of us _your_ setups, no one will mind :)

--
Pat Dotson

through ***space:

I nominate this post for Post of the Week!
--

SimRacing Online Webmaster
http://www.racesimcentral.net/
Hawaii: IWCCCARS

Pat:

Joe Farr took the best setups he had that were the best of all the
fastlap drivers and posted them in the IVGA Publications Section.

All the other FASTLAP drivers could not beat Joe, Joe put his
NASCAR 1.21 setups up..  What more can we do,.,,

Don

--
Chuck Stuart - Mesquite TX USA

You are right.  I forgot about the differences between 1.21 and Multi.
The setups for each are quite a bit different so there shouldn't be
any problem with you racing in the NRL...

I don't agree with this.  From what I understand, the handling in Multi is
the same (or nearly so) as the handling in Nascar 2.  All of the setups
we've developed for Multi should still apply to Nascar 2.  Even if this
weren't the case, someone still had to test the program and I don't think
it's unfair.

--
Pat Dotson

If one manufacturer gets an unfair advantage over another, measures
are taken to balance the field.
In light of this I say that somene who is getting setup information
that everyone else is not, has an unfair advantage and measures should
be taken to balance the level of competion. What these measures are
are being determined by whoever runs the show. The decisions made by
Papyrus seem to be thought out and reached with the knowledge that you
can't please everybody.  The majority is in their formost
consideration.

Live to race-Race to live

I was talking about Nascar 2.0

The Attorneys for NASCAR told me that in ATLANTA!!!!!!!!!!!
Tony come on who doesnt see the picture now....  You think that
NASCAR would of started a Div 13 with $$$$ in mind....  

Than why did the get rid of ALEC FLORY who always kicked their butts!!!

I need glasses...

  Compared to the entire customer base of Papyrus,

Thats true... But there may not be anmore unless we develop an
NASCAR AIR WARRIOR game that can accomdate 1000 racers....

  The fact that Papyrus pays so much attention to us in

Im waiting...

  I have talked with Jane, Ed, and Adam at

They are good...

Duck when the "Drive by Wire NASCAR hits town"

--
Chuck Stuart - Mesquite TX USA

And just how can they stop them? Can they somehow always identify
everyone calling in to race? I think not.

<snippage>

        OOPS! Chuck, It is their network, their computers, their software, they
can refuse service to anyone, anytime, for any reason or for no reason at all.

        Same as the sign behind the bartender at most bars.

        I do agree with you tho', if everything is kept fair and they police
the rules. I have no problem with these guys racing.
        Have Fun!
        Ralph<Ralphw on Hawaii>Williams

/----------------------------------------------------------------------\
/Ralph Williams      My real .sig file is in the shop getting repaired.\

/----------------------------------------------------------------------\

shooting through ***space:

Don --

I've tried to be fair and even-handed about this, but WHAT THE HECK
ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT?!?!?

A) Beta testers -- how would you KNOW if the beta testers were testing
NRL or not?  They are under non-disclosure.  That means that if they
WERE testing NRL, then they wouldn't tell you anyway.  If they did,
they'd be violating their compact with Papyrus.  Unless you are a
tester yourself, you cannot say if the EXTERNAL beta-testers are even
touching NRL at all.

B) Racing for money -- Where the heck did you get that idea?  Not a
single post by ANYONE at Papyrus OR NASCAR intimated a single thing
about money or prizes being doled out through NRL.  You know why?
Because of this VERY ISSUE!!  Heck, with all the ***flowing around
here about cheating and all in a FREE atmosphere, imagine what it
would be if there was money or prizes on the line!

C) The "Factory Team" -- Ludicrous as this idea is, let's consider it
seriously.  Say you're the president of Papyrus.  You are creating a
racing league for the patrons of your racing simulator.  You know for
a fact that money will not be involved as prizes.  You also know that
the way to keep clients is to make sure they are happy with their
experience and have the ability to compete fairly and equally with
everyone else who has the simulator.  Would YOU create a "factory
team" to dominate NRL?  I didn't think so.

Don, you and a lot of people are seeing NRL and NASCAR 2 in a
microcosm.  Compared to the entire customer base of Papyrus,
rec.autos.simulators and the Internet racing leagues are a mere
fraction.  The fact that Papyrus pays so much attention to us in
***space is an indicator of their dedication to creating a good sim
experience for everyone.  I have talked with Jane, Ed, and Adam at
length about this, and you can't find a less biased group of people
when it comes to other people's racing interests.

Think about it, Don.  Try putting yourself in their shoes.  What would
YOU do in this situation if you were them?
--

SimRacing Online Webmaster
http://www.racesimcentral.net/
Hawaii: IWCCCARS

 :>
 :>>>

 :>>> :>To:             IVGA MEMBERSHIP
 :>>> :>
 :>>> :>From:           Don Wilshe
 :>>> :>
 :>>> :>Subject:        PAPYRUS advises Don Wilshe and the IVGA!!!!
 :>>> :>
 :>>>
 :>>> As everyone that monitors this newsgroup knows, there is absolutely no love
 :>>> lost between me and Don.  But I have to say that I don't care if Don races
 :>>> in NRL.  
 :>>>
 :>>> Again, I' not supporting Don specifically, but everybody's right to compete
 :>>> if they fill out the form and pay their fee.
 :>>>
 :>
 :>If the goal of simulations is to be as realistic as possible we should
 :>examine where we are in relation to the real Nascar, verses Nascar2.
 :>In Nascar the playing field is constantly monitored to keep things
 :>competative and even. Look at what they have done to keep Ford and
 :>Chevy balanced, along with Pontiac.
 :>
 :>If one manufacturer gets an unfair advantage over another, measures
 :>are taken to balance the field.
 :>In light of this I say that somene who is getting setup information
 :>that everyone else is not, has an unfair advantage and measures should
 :>be taken to balance the level of competion. What these measures are
 :>are being determined by whoever runs the show. The decisions made by
 :>Papyrus seem to be thought out and reached with the knowledge that you
 :>can't please everybody.  The majority is in their formost
 :>consideration.
 :>

You're talking about evening the playing field, and Papy can't hope to do
that successfully for the following reasons:

a) Some guys have fantastic hardware at their *** disposal.  Pentium
     200's with Verite video cards, 48mb of ram, and  top-notch wheel-pedal
     setups spell *** hardware.  What is Papy gonna do - ban
     anyone from racing who uses anything better than a Pentuium 75?  I
     don't think so...

b) Some people just plain have more time to practice.

c) Some people have a natural grasp of car-handling physics.  Most don't.

I think their efforts in this area are pure and total bullshit.  Like I said
before, if the guy fills out the form and pays his fees, he should be allowed
to race.  Of course, cheating would not be tolerated, but that's another
thread...

/===================================================\
| John Simmons (Redneck Techno-Biker)               |

| http://www.racesimcentral.net/; |
\===================================================/

I request from here on out My name is not envolved in any of this crap.
I have not been kicked out of the NRL yet. But with all this going on
and all the bull whats the point. I don't even feel like racing
anymore.

So PLEASE don't include me in any of your arguments. Please give me
that much respect. PLEASE.

Let me rest in peace.

Alec

Actually, the only $$$ I think Nascar has in mind are the ones coming
from sponsors. Of course there could be small prizes awarded, but
I really don't think that anyone is expecting them. Most of us are
more interested in the competition and the sense of being part of
Nascar than any money. (Although it wouldn't hurt. I'd like to pay off
my LD bill sometime this millenium) :)

I don't agree with Alec Flory being banned.

I have them, they suck. Go for contact lenses... :)

Unlike some of us, most people have lives that don't include spending
LONG hours in front of the computer. :)

Again, I respect what you've done and your accomplishments with IVGA
and how well you drive, but I think this is getting out of hand.
Helpful suggestions, compromising, and a bit of understanding will get
you much further along than threats, calling for votes, and ***
theories. NRL isn't supposed to start for awhile yet, so why not cool
off and try to settle this in the mean time. Besides, how many people
would beta test Nascar 2.0 if they knew that they would be excluded
from racing in the NRL?  I wouldn't.

Regards,
David Range

I musta missed a post somewhere as I'm totally lost here. Would someone be kind
enough to fill me in as to what in the world is going on here?

Brian Kinkaid

bnk29 on Hawaii