rec.autos.simulators

So what's so great about GPL anyway ?

m..

So what's so great about GPL anyway ?

by m.. » Mon, 27 Jan 2003 06:01:55

As a long time sim fan I can remember playing the GPL demo of the
Monza track, I think I had a Voodoo 2 then and a Thrustmaster Wheel.
Man it was great, like a lot of people I spent hours going round Monza
trying to reduce my lap times. When the game came out it was fantastic
and kept me up burning the midnight oil on many nights. Then of course
we had VROC in all its formats and that was great too. Loads of add on
tracks, the list was never ending. Anyway, since then I've played F1
2001, F2002 (the GT mod is great), F1RC, TIA, all of the Papy Nascars
Nascar Heat, Viper Racing plus others too numerous to mention. In that
period I went from Voodoo 2 to Voodoo 3 and then Voodoo 5 ( what
happened to 4 ?) Radeon 8500 and now a Radeon 9700 Pro. Recently a new
set of leaked drivers was found to have FSAA support for 16 bit so I
thought why not give GPL a go ? It was still lurking on my hard drive
(even though I upgraded to XP last year) and so I di dand guess what.
It's still the 'kin greatest, nothing else has ever matched the
adrenaline pumping feeling flying around Monza or Watkins Glen. Maybe
it's me but you can keep all of the newer stuff, GPL is an immense
achievement and nothing, repeat nothing, has matched it yet. So why ?
It doesn't have the greates graphics (although on a 9700 at 1024 x 764
FSAA and 16 X aniso it looks pretty good).

Do you know what ? I don't care why but if I was a sim programmer I
would because they need to understand it and emulate it so we can have
more sims which we can still enjoy 4 years from now !!!!!!!

By the way I am 50 so I expect that makes me a BOF but I just don't
care.

Tim

So what's so great about GPL anyway ?

by Tim » Mon, 27 Jan 2003 08:09:11


>As a long time sim fan I can remember playing the GPL demo of the
>Monza track, I think I had a Voodoo 2 then and a Thrustmaster Wheel.
>Man it was great, like a lot of people I spent hours going round Monza
>trying to reduce my lap times.

[snip GPL lovin']

I've asked myself the same question in your header numerous times, but
from a different perspective...
I played the demo a lot when it came out, and bought the full version
on the day it was released. I messed around with it for a few weeks,
tired of it, and basically quit playing.
The newsgroup gushed on and on about it. I must be missing something.
I kept going back, and kept coming to the same conclusion. I just
couldn't get into it. I read about the totally realistic physics while
watching replays of cars flying 200 feet in the air and pulling off
lurid full corner slides that real GP cars of the era never performed.

I must've tried coming back to the game half a dozen times, forcing
myself to play it, trying it online, reading the posts, messing with
setups... Low Rider, High Rider, cheatin' Rail Rider, all to no avail.
I actually felt I had to be missing some key aspect. It was like the
movie everyone loves, but you dislike. What was I missing? What was
the plot point that brought it all together that I wasn't seeing (was
the evil Darth Enzo actually Colin Chapmans father?!?)?

I never found out, and I still don't get it. I avoided the flame wars
about it, but occasionally piped in with some "not too critical"
comment that'd get me branded a fool for not knowing old GP car
physics, despite knowing that real race clips from the era on
Speedvision looked nothing like what I was seeing on my computer
screen. I'm not a super stickler for perfect physics either, I really
just care if a game is fun, and couldn't have fun with GPL.
To this day, I feel like I missed out on something special because
everyone holds GPL in such high regard and I never "got" it.

Wayne Templi

So what's so great about GPL anyway ?

by Wayne Templi » Mon, 27 Jan 2003 08:29:42

FWIW:

I owned a Voodoo 4 shortly after it came out.  It was a Voodoo5 with exactly
half the performance.  It handled the graphics very well without the huge
price of a VD5.  I had the card for quite some time and then gave it to a
friend to upgrade their machine.  A very nice card.

Wayne Templin


McF

So what's so great about GPL anyway ?

by McF » Mon, 27 Jan 2003 08:46:41



[cut]

So which other (more realistic) sim have you got?

Russell Spearin

So what's so great about GPL anyway ?

by Russell Spearin » Mon, 27 Jan 2003 09:22:32

I think it boils down to, different people like different things. If someone
likes something and gets a lot of enjoyment out of it, then great, I'm happy
for them. It doesn't matter whether I like it or not. I personally don't
like Nascar Racing, but I know a lot of other people do.

Also, I think it's wrong to compare GPL to a modern day F1 sim except from a
technical/programming perspective. They are totally uncomparable, different
era's, different technology and a completely different approach to racing
technique. I enjoy both GPL and F1 2002 and for pure fun factor I don't
prefer one to the other. However, if you start looking at the
technical/programming issues, that's where I admire GPL a lot. Considering
the game is getting on for five years old, it has got a very good physics
model, superb force feedback effects, has better online racing than most
modern games.

At the end of the day though, we're all here to just have some fun. I
doesn't matter what game you play as long as you enjoy yourself.

Regards

Russell



> >As a long time sim fan I can remember playing the GPL demo of the
> >Monza track, I think I had a Voodoo 2 then and a Thrustmaster Wheel.
> >Man it was great, like a lot of people I spent hours going round Monza
> >trying to reduce my lap times.

> [snip GPL lovin']

> I've asked myself the same question in your header numerous times, but
> from a different perspective...
> I played the demo a lot when it came out, and bought the full version
> on the day it was released. I messed around with it for a few weeks,
> tired of it, and basically quit playing.
> The newsgroup gushed on and on about it. I must be missing something.
> I kept going back, and kept coming to the same conclusion. I just
> couldn't get into it. I read about the totally realistic physics while
> watching replays of cars flying 200 feet in the air and pulling off
> lurid full corner slides that real GP cars of the era never performed.

> I must've tried coming back to the game half a dozen times, forcing
> myself to play it, trying it online, reading the posts, messing with
> setups... Low Rider, High Rider, cheatin' Rail Rider, all to no avail.
> I actually felt I had to be missing some key aspect. It was like the
> movie everyone loves, but you dislike. What was I missing? What was
> the plot point that brought it all together that I wasn't seeing (was
> the evil Darth Enzo actually Colin Chapmans father?!?)?

> I never found out, and I still don't get it. I avoided the flame wars
> about it, but occasionally piped in with some "not too critical"
> comment that'd get me branded a fool for not knowing old GP car
> physics, despite knowing that real race clips from the era on
> Speedvision looked nothing like what I was seeing on my computer
> screen. I'm not a super stickler for perfect physics either, I really
> just care if a game is fun, and couldn't have fun with GPL.
> To this day, I feel like I missed out on something special because
> everyone holds GPL in such high regard and I never "got" it.

Steve Blankenshi

So what's so great about GPL anyway ?

by Steve Blankenshi » Mon, 27 Jan 2003 09:42:42

I remember feeling ambivalent about GPL too, when it first came out.  It
just felt so different from anything that had come before it, and yes,
different than I would've expected a real "simulated" car to feel.  My first
thought after trying the Lotus was that if someone in real life sent me out
in something that evil-handling, I'd go straight back to the pits and punch
'em in the face.  But the more I drove it, the more I got it, until finally,
it clicked.  Heck, even Dave Kaemmer was quoted somewhere on the net talking
about the need to develop "new neural pathways" or something like that to
really "get" GPL and it's brethren.  I finally came to regard GPL as having
really great rigid-body physics with really odd tires.  But even given its
tire (and other) idiosyncracies, it was still by far the best driving sim
out there for communicating where the limit of grip was to the driver.

That, I think, is what makes it so rewarding.  The thing that makes fast
driving exciting is risk, and fear of the disaster waiting if you go over
the limit.  The thing that makes it rewarding is feeling like you put the
car right on that limit and still brought it back.  A lot of sims let you
drive fast, but none before (or since, it might be argued) did as good a job
of letting you know when you were approaching the "edge of disaster" - of
communicating exactly what was going on at the contact patches.  That's what
makes the GPL driving experience dramatic, exciting and rewarding.  GPL had
lots else going for it; a romantic period with legendary tracks and drivers,
an obvious passion on the part of its developers, great multiplayer, etc.,
but the quality of the driving experience is what really differentiated it
for me, originally.

The quality of the community that's sprung up around it and the great
enhancements that have followed only continue to widen the gap to any other
sim out there for me, even though the physics have been bettered since.
There's a lot of craft on evidence in sims these days, but to my mind, GPL
is still the only one that approaches art.

SB


> I've asked myself the same question in your header numerous times, but
> from a different perspective...
> I played the demo a lot when it came out, and bought the full version
> on the day it was released. I messed around with it for a few weeks,
> tired of it, and basically quit playing.
> The newsgroup gushed on and on about it. I must be missing something.
> I kept going back, and kept coming to the same conclusion. I just
> couldn't get into it. I read about the totally realistic physics while
> watching replays of cars flying 200 feet in the air and pulling off
> lurid full corner slides that real GP cars of the era never performed.

> I must've tried coming back to the game half a dozen times, forcing
> myself to play it, trying it online, reading the posts, messing with
> setups... Low Rider, High Rider, cheatin' Rail Rider, all to no avail.
> I actually felt I had to be missing some key aspect. It was like the
> movie everyone loves, but you dislike. What was I missing? What was
> the plot point that brought it all together that I wasn't seeing (was
> the evil Darth Enzo actually Colin Chapmans father?!?)?

> I never found out, and I still don't get it. I avoided the flame wars
> about it, but occasionally piped in with some "not too critical"
> comment that'd get me branded a fool for not knowing old GP car
> physics, despite knowing that real race clips from the era on
> Speedvision looked nothing like what I was seeing on my computer
> screen. I'm not a super stickler for perfect physics either, I really
> just care if a game is fun, and couldn't have fun with GPL.
> To this day, I feel like I missed out on something special because
> everyone holds GPL in such high regard and I never "got" it.

Eldre

So what's so great about GPL anyway ?

by Eldre » Mon, 27 Jan 2003 10:59:57



>To this day, I feel like I missed out on something special because
>everyone holds GPL in such high regard and I never "got" it.

Don't worry about it.  If you don't get it, there's nothing anyone can say to
HELP you like it.  Just enjoy the games you *do* get...<g>

Eldred
--
Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett
GPLRank:-0.381
N2002 Rank:+17.59

Never argue with an idiot.  He brings you down to his level, then beats you
with experience...
Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

Tim

So what's so great about GPL anyway ?

by Tim » Mon, 27 Jan 2003 11:04:57



Did I say I found other sims more realistic, or just that GPL wasn't
as realistic as many claimed? I think it was the latter.

Anyway, to answer your question. Viper Racing, SODA, any of the Papy
NASCAR Racing titles since 4, and perhaps GTR2002.
Live For Speed also appears to be on the right track, but it's
suffering horribly from hacked cars that bend its physics to the point
where they are as far out as the catapulted, or 30 barrel rolls in
succession cars of GPL.
Ask me what racing games I found more FUN, and the list will be much
longer.

don hodgdo

So what's so great about GPL anyway ?

by don hodgdo » Mon, 27 Jan 2003 11:34:35

What he said...
--
don

-------------------------------------
                    BAPOM
Alternative Program Covers for GPL
   http://www.trilon.com/bapom/


<SNIP>

Tim

So what's so great about GPL anyway ?

by Tim » Mon, 27 Jan 2003 11:47:29


Yea. It bugged me because I'm pretty much a motorcycle and car
fanatic, I love stuff that models physics (even stuff like that little
Bridge Builder simulation), and I'm basically in line with all the
other opinions on RAS.
Just that one thing I differ with, but it's a biggie! It's like saying
you don't like pizza or something. You're automatically dismissed as a
whacko. LOL.

ymenar

So what's so great about GPL anyway ?

by ymenar » Mon, 27 Jan 2003 12:05:39


> Heck, even Dave Kaemmer was quoted somewhere on the net talking
> about the need to develop "new neural pathways" or something like that to
> really "get" GPL and it's brethren.  I finally came to regard GPL as
having
> really great rigid-body physics with really odd tires.  But even given its
> tire (and other) idiosyncracies, it was still by far the best driving sim
> out there for communicating where the limit of grip was to the driver.

I think that's the best way to not only approach GPL, but racing simulations
in general.  Yes, they are trying to be the most realistic possible.  No,
they are not realistic, whatever the game producers write at the back of
their box.

So there, we must accept those cars "as they are" in their virtual world,
and that virtual world "as it is" with their physics and different
dimensions.

It's still racing, even if it's not slightly perfect.  It still makes us
push those cars to the limit, and OH! how enjoyable that limit is in GPL.
Heck, even in something like GP4, it can be interesting.

--
-- Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard>
-- http://ymenard.cjb.net/
-- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimago-Dominguez
Corporation - helping America into the New World...

Dave Henri

So what's so great about GPL anyway ?

by Dave Henri » Mon, 27 Jan 2003 12:46:01

Tim O

   Well....name ONE other person who doesn't like GPL who ISN't a WACKO!!!
dave henrie

Tim

So what's so great about GPL anyway ?

by Tim » Mon, 27 Jan 2003 22:17:49



Well, I'll take that as a compliment, but I think we're treading on
thin ice here, Dave. lol

McF

So what's so great about GPL anyway ?

by McF » Mon, 27 Jan 2003 22:27:47




...
> It's like saying
> you don't like pizza or something. You're automatically dismissed as a
> whacko. LOL.

You don't like pizza???!!

;-))

John Simmon

So what's so great about GPL anyway ?

by John Simmon » Mon, 27 Jan 2003 22:37:31


says...

I absolutely despise open-wheel racing, and even *I* like GPL. I
guess it's because I'm so old. I remember watching clips from those
races on Wide World Of Sports when I was a kid.


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