rec.autos.simulators

massivechicken

Like any other PC game, it simply isn't for everyone.

And despite my aversion to open-wheel racing, I'd most definitely
spend the money on a "GPL2".

BTW, Gerry mentioned the difficulty of GPL being what caused people
not to like it (at least that's how I interpret "you were ***at
it"), but I loved SODA, which was also very difficult.
It bums me out that it came out right at the dawn of 3D, and only got
Rendition acceleration. Direct 3D support would have made this one
timeless for me, just like GPL is for many here.

I was Elite on the BBC, and the PC version (74Kb!) but I never got all that
far with Frontier & First Encounters. Still got them though. I moved onto
I'76 after that.

It's not the genre, it's the quality of the game ;-)

Malc.

So how slow were you then?

Just curious.

Gerry

I only ever really got 'not slow' at monza (my PB was sub 1:30), the other
tracks I wasn't bad but I didn't stick with GPL for more than 6 months.
Nurburgring was an awesome track too.

Gerry, I liked GPL. I showed it off to my friends. I played it a lot. But it
didn't last 6 years like it has with you guys. Yes, I've got ALL the addons.
Yes, I've played on VROC. Yes, I've raced in a GPL league. I had a recent
bout of 3 months of GPL as I once again tried to force myself to like it.
The difference is I lost interest very quickly. I've spent a hell of a lot
more time on GTR2002 and N4/2002, purely because I think they are more
realistic. I wish I was like you with your GPL fascination but I'm not, and
no amount of arguing the toss is going to change mine, Tim-O's and no doubt
countless others who don't regularly drive GPL.

Why don't I drive it? Because it doesn't 'feel' right to me. It's a hell of
a lot of fun, but I just can't imagine any real car EVER handling like a GPL
car. Papy have gotten better and better, so I look forward to GPL2 if that
eventuates.

I look forward to your level headed, thoughtful, respectful and intelligent
reply. lol.

massivechicken

Not quite a car, but a single-engine ProKart in the rain handles scarily
like a cross between the Brabham and the Ferrari in the dry...

massivechicken

You can't even compare the sensations of driving a real car and a simulated
car. The important thing (for any sim) is there's consistent relation
between the sensation the sim gives to the driver and what the on-screen car
does. Driving a virtual car is as much about pre-empting it as a real one.
That said, there is a lot of questionable stuff going on in GPL... the way
the tyres work, the differential (especially when running an open diff...
compare to LFS) and it's response to sudden upsets like kerbs, no doubt
about it. Another thing about GPL is really whacko setups can be as fast or
even faster than "proper" ones. Whether or not these settings are feasible
in RL and they never occurred to the guys at the time or whether, as is my
opinion, the reason they work is the fact the parts in question are
unbreakable in the sim, they do allow for some weird sensations and for some
pretty far out stuff to be pulled off in the driving department.

Like I said before in this thread, it takes a real effort on the part of the
driver to complete the illusion in GPL. Perhaps most of us are just lucky we
did this without thinking about it.

Jan.
=---

<SNIP>

There are many people with a lot of single seater experience who say GPL
is very realistic as far as car handling goes. Have you any real world
knowledge to base your conclusion on?

Also, did you use FFB with GPL?

Will that do? :)

Very respectfully yours

Gerry

The only single seaters I raced was go karts...still do as a hobby, but I'm
not in competition anymore like 5 years ago! I also club raced a 998 mini
cooper, in autocrosses and track days (Phillip Island, Winton etc). I crack
out the 300ZX on Phillip Island once a year for some time trial action. GPL
does indeed feel real in general, but there are certain things that don't
feel right and put me off.

What I'm trying to say is, there are other sims out there that for ME
simulate driving a little better. As Jan says, there are a lot of weird
things going on in the GPL engine. Because it blew every other 'sim' out of
the water when it was released, people are now a little blind to this fact I
think. Sort of starstruck. Someone like me, who gave GPL a good go but let
it rest for 5 years and comes back to it, notices these things probably a
little more than people who've been at it solidly since release.

As for my controller, I use the BRD speed 7 pedals with a momo force wheel.
And yes, it had nice FF effects. :)

With utmost respect,
massivechicken

To me this just highlights the personal preference in feel from these sims. They
*have* to fool the brain into providing that sensation of losing the backend,
replacing the seat of the pants feel from the physics via visual, audible and
force feedback cues. For a considerable number, GPL has provided that feel and
still does, unsurpassed by anything that has come out for that genre.

For others there will be alternative sims that have that combination of factors
to provide that feel. Doesn't mean either set are wrong - its just what works
for each individual. Just as in any racing series what suits one driver
perfectly is an evil pig for another, I would argue the substitue cues for real
physics exaggerate this even more.

As Jan has said some have adopted a driving style and car setup approach which
matches as closely as possible to real life. For those GPL seems the most
realistic simulator available simply because there is a match between the cues
and driving style. Doesn't mean anyone else is wrong - it simply fits.

Personally I prefer the graphical style of Papy sims to the EA F1 series. With
the add ons GPL is a more immersive and easy on the eye sim, whilst the EA
series provide great static shots but the in game graphics leave me cold. Purely
my preference. It may not seem important but I think it adds to the visual cues
and hence the feel factor again.

Despite its age I can't think of a sim (exluding Nascar) that provides a better
feel factor, regardless of the known limitation of the engine at extremes. That
is with some extensive times away from the sim as new things come out and one
expects to ditch GPL just as F1GP, ICR, GP2, ICR2, RS were ditched
unceremoniously as a new toy came out top replace it beforehand.

All IMHO off course!

Cheers
Tony

<snip>

OK  I suspect this is a difference in opinion here, but anyway, here goes:

When I bought GPL I bought it for 5. I wanted it to be worse that GP3 - I
thought all the people who came to the various GP3 forums preaching about
GPL were trolling, and were wronig. When I played GPL, it was so hard I gave
up and went back to GP3. When I got bored of GP3, I came back to GPL, and
got into it. Despite trying my damnest not to like it (to protect GP3)

I said in another post that a cross between the GPL Brabham and the GPL
Ferrari handles scarily like a prokart in the rain. I think that GPL is the
only non-NASCAR sim to be close enough to handle like a car would in
reality. I doubt they got it right for the cars they are simulating, but
they got it right for a car. That's better than most IMO.