rec.autos.simulators

I've known about gas'n'brakes for several years in my own experience from
go-karts and watching races, and it's frustrating me that I can't use this
technique in my current setup. I've got a Microsoft Sidewinder Force
Feedback Wheel, and the brakes are just the backwards Y-direction while the
gas are just the forwards Y-direction. So pressing the brakes basically just
cancels out the gas. Having both feet firmly planted would just mean that
you're idling. Is there any way to fix this on the Microsoft Wheel?

    Yousuf Khan

If you mean your GPLRank is around 30 seconds then you might consider doing
it. You'll certainly progress faster due to the technique than through other
means. If you mean you're 30 secs off Huttu using combined axis you're no
less of an alien than he is.

I would be very surprised if one could not have seperate axis on an MSFF
wheel. I've never owned one, so I don't know, but surely if it's not there
"out of the box" people will have found a way around it. Use of third party
pedals (such as those by CH) springs to mind. I'm sure there are people on
this forum who know, so I hope they will show you the way. If not, refrase
the question/header so it's more clear you need help with your wheel.

Jan.
=---

Seperating the axis of the brake and gas pedal on an MSFF wheel is as
simple as having a Sidewinder profile running that configures the
controller that way.  Just not done through a switch like other
wheels.  Simpler this way really.

-John

If you have a profile that you could send me, would be much appreciated.

    Yousuf Khan

Monza for example: good time should be around 1:30, I'm around 2:00, on
shear luck I'd get into the high 1:40's! Similar problems around other
tracks. I just can't seem to lay down any sort of traction, so I have to
feather the throttle continously, even when going in a straight line. Just
shear frustration, I can't use certain techniques that I know will let me
control oversteer/understeer.

Don't know what GPLRank is, or who Huttu is. I haven't followed the
developments in this group in years.

Well, I believe the settings to achieve this are somewhere in the profile
editor. I was really wondering if somebody has an MSFF wheel profile that
they use in GPL that they could send me.

            Yousuf Khan

This sounds very odd, you shouldn't need to modulate your throttle
in the higher gears (3/4/5) on the straights. A really obscure setup
might cause this, what setups do you use?

The default setups are fine to get close to Papy times, certainly
1:30 at Monza is possible with these, without gas+brake. Just
lower the gas to give you enough fuel for your practice run.

Have you had this problem for 2 years?, same controller? just
wondering if it's some obscure driver (software not you), directx
or controller hardware issue.

Gas with brake is mainly used in conjunction with moving the
brake balance more rearward. Using it with the defaults for example
will probably not give you an advantage.

The reason to do it (gas+brake) with say 53%(ish) brake bias is that
having some gas will keep more weight over the rear wheels (
which normally gets mostly thrown forward under heavy braking).

As the rear wheels have a greater contact patch, this has the
effect of giving you more efficient braking, although it takes
some practice to get the balance of braking and gas right.

It also has the slight benefit, once mastered, of allowing you to
fine tune your braking just as you approach turn-in. If you
braked a touch too early you can just give it a  little more gas
(still same pressure on brake), too late and you can back off the
gas.

To be doing 2:00 with lucky 1:40s you must be doing a whole
lot more "wrong", gas+brake is a techniqe to shave a few 10ths
not seconds.

Take a look at this driving technique package I put together
a while ago, it may help : http://users.bart.nl/~hansvd/school/

Maxx

Hmmm, I agree with Malcolm that does sound rather odd. Not sure as to what
might be causing that. While it's true you can never quite *stomp* on it,
you should be able to push the accellerator positively and progressively in
all but a few locations.

You might try removing the DirectX deadzones on the controller, using the
DXTweak utility (http://www.wingmanteam.com/files/Tools/DXTweak/) and/or
different settings of the linearity slider in the controller setup menu to
make you more comfortable.

If you feel brave you can post one of your better laps to
alt.binaries.simulators.autos for Malcolm, myself and others to have a look
at.

Malcolm is an ex-real life racing instructor and has put together a package
which concerns itself with driving technique. You can find it here :
http://www-personal.umich.edu/~epickett/gpl.htm. Although you may want to
make sure you've got your throttle problem cured before you try to follow
his instruction.

GPLRank is a site which allows you to track your progress in the game by
comparing your times over the 11 tracks in GPL with those of the replays
that ship with the game and in relation to other racers. Here's the URL:
http://gplrank.ringlord.com/. At the very least it will show you you're not
alone in struggling with the game.

I'm sure someone will.

Jan.
=---

Well, I've been able to create a very basic profile that separates the gas
and brakes. Lap times are already starting to come down.

The reason I was asking about getting other people's MSFF profiles was to
see if they've done anything with dead-zones and stuff. To see if they've
got those special little tweaks that just makes the wheel feel better. Is
there any advantage in putting a deadzone into the pedal configuration? I'm
currently using a full linear, no-deadzone config.

    Yousuf Khan

I've used the defaults, I've created some with some experimentation, and
I've also downloaded Alison Hine's setups, and I'm trying to get used to
using her setups nowadays, because I've seen her laptime videos, and she
seems to be doing something right.

Yup, bought the MSFF wheel specifically to play with GPL. Previously I'd
been using just a normal Gravis gamepad with games like CART/Indycar Racing
1 & 2, and GP 1 & 2. Once I got GPL, I quickly realised that this one
requires finesse, and the on-off nature of the gamepad was useless.

In the meantime the system's been upgraded a few times too, such as going
from a K6-2-300 to K6-3-450 to a Duron-700 to an Athlon-1000 most recently.

That's exactly my thinking. I've now been able to separate the gas and
brakes and now I'm doing my "lucky" times more consistently. I'm able to
take curbs at higher gears now. We'll see if this takes me to the good
times, once I get used to the techniques.

    Yousuf Khan

I've always used combined axis in GPL, and I don't think I'm suffering
too badly. I can see some techniques that the hotshoes are using as
impossible on my rig, like stabilising the rear end with the throttle
while trailbraking, _but_ now we're talking the absolute last seconds
of laptime(I hope!). I would concentrate on getting down to 1:30-32's
before using anything other than
"like-your-dad-taught-you-driving-style" i.e.:

1. accelerate

2. brake in a straight line

3. corner

4. back to 1.

/Magnus
GPLRank hcp: -34.32

-John

On Sun, 14 Jan 2001 06:56:02 GMT, "Yousuf Khan"

-John

On the downside, I've just gained about 2 seconds on each track I've tried
so far with the new setup. It's going to take a little getting used to, but
best to do it now while I've still got lots to learn. hcp= ~499.