rec.autos.simulators

What will become of the Papy Nascar legacy?

Larr

What will become of the Papy Nascar legacy?

by Larr » Fri, 07 Nov 2003 13:32:58

Well, Gerry, you just commited what I consider the only sin in this
Newsgroup.

Have a nice life.

-Larry



> I have.  What's your point?

What do you think his point is, you ***wit!?
--

Gerry Aitken?

Dave Henri

What will become of the Papy Nascar legacy?

by Dave Henri » Fri, 07 Nov 2003 15:53:23


   I think Jason was referring to the EA THunder Nascar sim, there was some
interest in modding the last version of Thunder<2003>, but I haven't seen
too much interest yet in the new title<2004> yet.  IT<2004> has some
advantages over mods based on F1c,(dedicated server support, rolling
starts, analog guages to name a few) but I think most of the mod teams will
try and push F1c to the limit before exploring making a mod with NAscar
THunder 2004
  PWF is modding the Papyrus Nascar sim, and doing a pretty good job so
far.  The biggest roadblock with any new mod from Nr2k3{papyrus} is the
limited number of bodystyles and the locked in physics.  A mod team can't
just pick any series and mod away...Series with many different car classes,
like most Sportscar series, will be difficult to pull off.  THe modders
will have to pick four body styles carefully and attempt to 'paint' the
various extra body styles on top of those.  And I don't think any Papyrus
mod can run mixed classes because each mod can only use one set of physics
parameteres.  So a GTR clone or a LeMans field is out of the question, the
Papyrus engine, afaik, doesn't allow running a group of smaller, lighter,
ngt's along with the bigger stronger GT class.  Even mixing two currently
available mods, the CTS trucks with Busch cars seems to be not do-able.
dave henrie

Andre

What will become of the Papy Nascar legacy?

by Andre » Fri, 07 Nov 2003 17:16:09


>You seem to think the _Developer_ has creative control.  They don't.

>What the publisher says goes.  That has been seen time and time again.

Eidos publish Deus Ex and Tomb Raider (two action games at the
opposite ends of the quality scale in case you don't know). How does
that square with your innacurate view of publishers?
--

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Steve Simpso

What will become of the Papy Nascar legacy?

by Steve Simpso » Fri, 07 Nov 2003 21:46:01

It's better than N2003 in many departments.  The menus are a bit sloppy
though and the multiplayer is well below par.  I prefer the physics,
graphics & AI in NT2004 but many others feel the opposite.  It shouldn't be
dismissed.  There's a lot of "I only play Papyrus sims" types who bag it
when it's blindingly obvious that they haven't even given it a chance.

Andre

What will become of the Papy Nascar legacy?

by Andre » Fri, 07 Nov 2003 23:59:52



I agree its better in several ways, but graphically? Assuming the full
game is like the demo, objects in the far distance don't respond well
to FSAA, the cars lose a lot of detail when only slightly away from
the viewer, and the short depth of rendering in the mirror is just
plain ugly. I do prefer the track textures though.
--

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jon

What will become of the Papy Nascar legacy?

by jon » Sat, 08 Nov 2003 02:01:16


I concur fully. He could have expressed that sentiment in a much nicer and
nobler way. That is not to say I would have shared his sentiment, but I
would have at least still held respect for him as a gentleman.

Gerry, a big  -K to you, dude. Not cool, not cool at ALL!!

Anyway, when I sit down to play the ISI titles, I feel a little like I'm
playing those fighting games that were so popular in the arcades back in say
the mid nineties, like Killer Instinct. If you entered just the right
combinations you could pull off some really kick ass moves. I really got
into some of those games. Played some F1 2002, and I was always trying to
find just the right combination of brake, throttle, etc.,  inputs to give
the game to get the corners down.

Now my daily driver in real life is an LS1 powered chevy. It will run a mid
13's in the quarter mile bone stock. Anyone who has ever driven such a car
knows, sometimes you get carried away. I have given my car too much
throttle, and the first time it happened and I felt the rear end of that car
wanting to shuck, jive, shimmy and shake in ways unbeknownst to me, you
could have colored me shitless. But I liked it.

Similarly, when I sit down to practice driving in the latest Papy
brilliancy, and I give it too much coming out of a turn, and I still got
grip, I can feel my tires sliding as I push high. I don't understand how,
and maybe it's just my imagination, but that's the way it feels. And when I
don't have grip, and give it too much, I'm positive that I can feel it
breaking loose as it goes into a spin. When it happens in a race, I am
usually so intent on recovering the car I yell at it. Call it a ***,
sometimes, I do. I am convinced that a part of my brain really believes I am
driving a car when I play N2003.  I can feel it as I scream down along the
wall,  I hold my breath and lean in when I turn, and I can't help it. This
simulator has many times tricked my brain into thinking it needed to flood
my system with adrenaline, and folks, I'll pay good money all day long for
something that can safely do that.

Those feelings just aren't there for me in the ISI titles yet. Of course, I
still haven't tried F1C and the ETCC mod. I had pretty much assumed, I
guess, that it would be a rehash of F12002 . Not that it was bad, it just
didn't really compare. F12002  and I'm guessing F1C seems kinda like vienna
sausage, I'll eat it if I'm hungry enough, but as long as I have this big
heaping helping of prime rib a' la Papy in front of me, I'm not liable to
mess with it too much.

Naturally, my impression of both papy and isi is based on the***pit view.
And so it should be.

Gerry Aitken

What will become of the Papy Nascar legacy?

by Gerry Aitken » Sat, 08 Nov 2003 02:20:06


> Well, Gerry, you just commited what I consider the only sin in this
> Newsgroup.

Well, every time you open your mouth an ill-conceived turd of a comment
falls out and fouls the usenet.

--

Gerry Aitken?

...and a friend shall lose a friend's hammer. - Book of Cyril, chapter
6, verse 16

This e-mail has been scanned for all known viruses by a fish called Colin.

Gerry Aitken

What will become of the Papy Nascar legacy?

by Gerry Aitken » Sat, 08 Nov 2003 02:23:01




>>Well, Gerry, you just commited what I consider the only sin in this
>>Newsgroup.

>>Have a nice life.
> Gerry, a big  -K to you, dude. Not cool, not cool at ALL!!

I'm not interested in being seen to be cool. In kicking the odd turd out
of the way so others won't have to deal with it, I expect to get the
occasional bit o' shit on my shoe.

--

Gerry Aitken?

...and a friend shall lose a friend's hammer. - Book of Cyril, chapter
6, verse 16

This e-mail has been scanned for all known viruses by a fish called Colin.

jon

What will become of the Papy Nascar legacy?

by jon » Sat, 08 Nov 2003 02:31:33

hey whatever. they're your K's not mine.
-K
-K
-K
-K
-K




>>Well, Gerry, you just commited what I consider the only sin in this
>>Newsgroup.

>>Have a nice life.
> Gerry, a big  -K to you, dude. Not cool, not cool at ALL!!

I'm not interested in being seen to be cool. In kicking the odd turd out
of the way so others won't have to deal with it, I expect to get the
occasional bit o' shit on my shoe.

--

Gerry Aitken?

...and a friend shall lose a friend's hammer. - Book of Cyril, chapter
6, verse 16

This e-mail has been scanned for all known viruses by a fish called Colin.

jason moy

What will become of the Papy Nascar legacy?

by jason moy » Sat, 08 Nov 2003 04:05:26


>You ARE kidding, right ?

>Project WildFire ring a bell ?

You can change body shapes in N2003, but that's it.  If you want to
race on Sierra you have to use the 4 physics models that Papyrus has
supplied.

It's not quite the same as what you can do with the ISI engine.

Jason

Goy Larse

What will become of the Papy Nascar legacy?

by Goy Larse » Sat, 08 Nov 2003 05:50:00


> You ARE kidding, right ?

> Project WildFire ring a bell ?

Aside for the fact that he was most likely talking about EA, who's
Project WildFire ?

Oh right, the new guys on the block ....:-)

Beers and cheers
(uncle) Goy
"goyl at nettx dot no"

http://www.theuspits.com

"A man is only as old as the woman he feels........"
--Groucho Marx--

Byron John Forbe

What will become of the Papy Nascar legacy?

by Byron John Forbe » Sat, 08 Nov 2003 14:43:21

   Let me clarify a little. Papy seems to be a company that, like most if
not all, realize they need a company to market their products. But unlike
many others, they dont let the marketing "suits" get control, impose idiotic
deadlines and push a product out before it's done ie done up to pre targeted
standards and then polished. The ultimate example (if you've been around for
a while you'd know) of the anti Papyrus was the debacle with Microsoft and
Cart Precision Racing. This NG was lit up over that for months. Fond
memories. LOL.


> On this day of our lord Mon, 03 Nov 2003 17:11:23 GMT, "Byron John

> >  I'll put it into words. Papy sims feel like they were made by
enthusiasts
> >who developed a sim to the point that met their needs and expectations
for a
> >racing sim - over the last decade! And the money followed! To me, Papy
have
> >always been masters of producung the best sims that modern computer
> >equiptment are capable of running. Above all, the spastic stench of
monoply
> >players pushing unpolished garbage out the door has always been absent. I
> >cant see a conglomerate like EA not suffering from this to some degree.
This
> >distinguishes Papyrus not only in racing sims but in the software market
> >generally.

> EA is a publisher for ISI just like Sierra was the publisher for
> Papayrus. You think Sierra is better than EA? Not IMO. You should be
> comparing ISI to Papayrus if you are going to compare apples to
> apples. I like ISI, not quite Papyrus level yet but they are the best
> we have left so don't ***on them.

Joachim Trens

What will become of the Papy Nascar legacy?

by Joachim Trens » Sat, 08 Nov 2003 19:25:23

Hi Jon,

while I do not approve of Gerry's choice of words and emotionality, I
have to say that Larry's comments regarding ISI's physics are very
critical, but not that well substantiated.

Apart from the fact that you can only compare ISI to Papy, not EA, ISI's
physics are actually highly detailed, as a quick glance into all the
conf files and some playing with the values there shows.

And while I share your sentiments that currently N2003's physics feel
more real than ISI's, this does not distract from the fact that ISI are
highly qualified enthusiasts who're doing a great job, and who show a
lot of dedication to both the job and their customers. We should show
them respect rather than mocking them and making derogatory fun of the
results of their work and dedication.

Achim

...

...

Ashley McConnel

What will become of the Papy Nascar legacy?

by Ashley McConnel » Sat, 08 Nov 2003 19:30:14


Achim,

I completely agree, elequently put.

All the best,
Ash
http://www.siroccoracing.com

jon

What will become of the Papy Nascar legacy?

by jon » Sat, 08 Nov 2003 23:17:42


Their hard work and dedication will pay off  as I intend to purchase F1C.
Mainly just to give the ETCC mod a try, but I am also interested in seeing
how much the netcode improved.


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