Cheers!
John
the inherent oversteer of the chassis...
I guess you guys all refer to the oversteer that happens if you lift
mid corner, or entering a corner too hot. I own a mid 80s 911 which I
take to the track every chance I get. I find the car to be an
understeering pig, and the rumors of oversteer to be vastly exagerated.
yes, it will snap ends if you do something really dumb, like lift in a
very fast turn, at or near the limits of ashesion. Other than that it
scared me more times by going straight than oversterring... ;-) (in
which case you have to lift a bit so it can oversteer, and catch it)
Greg.
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"rearly?"--well yes, that's what oversteer does . . .
or did you (or to use your kewl speak, "u") mean "rarely?"
If so, fine. But why the bug up your ass? Don't you like the folks in this
ng?
---------------------
trying to act tough. "
I'm sure there's a nice "porsche-drivers wannabees" group you could abuse.
Take that shit somewhere else, fool.
love,
DK
Fact is that any car, in particular one that drives though the rear-wheels,
can and will oversteer if you try hard enough. There is not "magic" gadget
that will eliminate that. New 911 are brilliant handling cars and are
amazingly progressive but the fact is if you want to oversteer it, then you
can, just like any other car (in particular one with enough power).
Anyway, this conversation is pointless 'cos all you have to do is watch
Porsche cup races on TV and you will see that the cars slide a fair bit (looks
very progressivle mind you) and they overteer quiete frequently. Therefore, a
game that models racing 911, should let you get the back out in order to be
"authentic".
Regards,
David Mocnay
>martin
>> > I have herd some complaints about the 911s not oversteering in Sports
>Car
>> > GT, but it just happeneds to be that if u guys would know anything about
>> > Eropean cars, you would know that Porsche as always been designing it's
>cars
>> > so that they are virtually impossible to oversteer. I know that cause
>here
>> > in Europe 911s are not a rare sight, u'll see about 3 a day, and I
>thinking
>> > of getting one. Before u start saying how fake a game is cause the cars
>> > don't handle how they are supposed to be, maybe it'd better if u
>actually
>> > knew something about the cars.
>> I have no idea if a race modified 911 has a lot of oversteer, but let me
>> assure you, that any 911 up to the latest version, WILL sooner or later
>> show you why most cars don't have the engines mounted in the rear, at
>> least if you drive it the way sports cars should be driven, there are
>> certain laws of physics that apply, that no amount of German hi-tech
>> engineering can eliminate
>> --
>> Beers and cheers
>> (uncle) Goy
>> "Team Mirage" http://www.teammirage.com/
>> "The Pits" http://www.theuspits.com/
"showing worse than the shiny ass on a
five year old suit."
LOL, good one.
Marty
Does anyone remember an article in Car & Driver ( I think ) of a comparison
between a full race 911 Turbo driven by Danny Ongias and his personal 911 Turbo
street car given to him by Porsche. He was quoted as saying as good a race car
as the race version was, he wouldn't drive the street car fast on the street
anywhere but in a straight line because of it's unforgiving behavior. Don't
imagine that statement sold many 911s, and probably didn't help his racing
career any. But this was from one of the most talented, versatile and fearless
drivers of the time.
The rear engine placement not only contributes to the high polar moment of
inertia that is part and parcel of trailing throttle oversteer, but prevents
adequate room for a proper suspension to deal with it.
Seems quite obvious to me the 911 was a neat little car when it started out but
developed into a fundamentally stupid car from a design stand point, kept alive
longer than Porsche ever intended by a yuppie/collector cult following.
They finally replaced it with modern automotive design concepts for a high
performance sports car such as midengine placement and liquid cooled engine. Did
they finally get rid of the semi-trailing arm/macphersion strut suspension used
in just about every econo-box ever made?
Just thought this thread could use some fresh heat :-)
Marty
> Schumacher
Yeah, I think I saw a little of that at LeMans last month.
Don McCorkle
Libertarian Motorsports
As rar as rear-engined cars go - McLaren F1, F50, CLR-GTR are all mid-endined
cars, not rear-engined cars. Mid-engined car is one with the engine between
the rerar wheels and front wheels while rear-engined car has the engine behind
the rear wheels. Porsche 911 and VW (the old one) are the only cars that do
that.
The F1 cars do not oversteer because they generate instane amount of downforce
which only is appied while the car is facing straight, moment the car is
sideways the downforce is gone and the F1 has no grip, that's why there is
usually an insane spin.
Regards,
David Mocnay
>Schumacher
>> > I have herd some complaints about the 911s not oversteering in Sports
>Car
>> > GT, but it just happeneds to be that if u guys would know anything about
>> > Eropean cars, you would know that Porsche as always been designing it's
>> cars
>> > so that they are virtually impossible to oversteer. I know that cause
>here
>> > in Europe 911s are not a rare sight, u'll see about 3 a day, and I
>> thinking
>> > of getting one. Before u start saying how fake a game is cause the cars
>> > don't handle how they are supposed to be, maybe it'd better if u
>actually
>> > knew something about the cars.
>> You are obviously not a physics genious.
>> KSB
Dave
that is good news, could you give me
an example how you are doing it ?
I am trying to get back on the track with
a bit of countersteer but end up mainly on the grass !
> Schumacher
> > > I have herd some complaints about the 911s not oversteering in Sports
> Car
> > > GT, but it just happeneds to be that if u guys would know anything
about
> > > Eropean cars, you would know that Porsche as always been designing
it's
> > cars
> > > so that they are virtually impossible to oversteer. I know that cause
> here
> > > in Europe 911s are not a rare sight, u'll see about 3 a day, and I
> > thinking
> > > of getting one. Before u start saying how fake a game is cause the
cars
> > > don't handle how they are supposed to be, maybe it'd better if u
> actually
> > > knew something about the cars.
> > You are obviously not a physics genious.
> > KSB
> Perhaps it would be better if "u" thought a little bit before spouting
> off. Porsche has been refining the 911 since its inception to try to tame
> the inherent oversteer of the chassis. They are pretty much there with
> the latest generation, partly as a result of suspension design, partly
> because the layout is tending more towards mid-engine than rear engine. I
> live in Europe at the moment. I see a lot of 911s. It doesn't
> necessarily mean I know about them. However, I am a mechanical engineer
> with a keen interest, perhaps passion, for 911s of all ages. An early 911
> will snap-oversteer in a second if the driver is not precise. A mid-80's
> 911 will oversteer on trailing throttle without a moment's hesitation. A
> Carrera 4 is neutral, due to the AWD, until provoked with the throttle, at
> which point it will also oversteer. At their limit all 911s can easily be
> induced to oversteer. Porsche has not made it "impossible" to oversteer
> in a 911.
> I'm glad you are thinking of buying a 911. I imagine Matchbox has a fine
> assortment of colours for you to choose from, Schumi.
> Stephen
Ofcourse
And Boeing 747's spend most of the time flying upside down.
At a guess, when they lose traction at the rear ??
So you've never watched Schumacher (your namesake) ?????
For goodness sake, these cars are set up and balanced to be as neutral
as possible, a 911 (which is what we are talking about here) isn't.
I wouldn't trust to you to wipe your own a** without leaving skidmarks
let alone drive a 911.
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:>> Even in road-going form a 911 will bite you if not treated with
:>> respect, and lift-off oversteer has been an infamous Porsche trait
:>> ever since the 911's birth.
:>First off the 911 will on throttle understeer and off throttle oversteer.
:>This is due to the wieght bais toward the rear tires.
: Am I reading that wrong are are you disagreeing with me while writing
: something that states the same as I did? :-)
: Cheers!
: John
John, you made a little typo in your first note, saying that mom and dad's
sedan are designed to OVERsteer 99% of the time. Small typo.
By the way, how were things up in Scotland? I attended a wedding in Doune
Castle in Callander in May, and it was wonderful. And no, there were no
cows coming over the walls (Doune was in the Holy Grail)
Stephen
