M
M
Schumacher
> Canadian. Living in Switzerland. No interest in professional football.
> Porsches that I have driven include a late 60's 912, mid-70's Carrera,
> mid-80's turbo and a Boxster. Understeer to neutral on corner entry with
> a careful foot on the throttle, oversteer if you lifted, and don't even
> think of braking. If they've tamed this with the '99 and its lovely
> electronics, then that's a step forward for public road safety, but it's
> taken away the one thing I enjoyed about the 911.
> As for your last point, I can't imagine a car oversteering any other way
> but "rearly". I imagine your 528 understeers "frontly".
> Have a nice day
> Stephen
> Did you ever hear of the PSM system incorporated into the '99 models of the
> 911? I don't think so. It eliminates oversteer. End of story. That is
> German high-tech genius.
Why am I ignorant ?
Because I've actually studied car suspension and physics, and build and
developed some decent setups for my own roadcars by trial and error
Only a truly ignorant person would overlook the way 911's have handled
since day one, Porsche have used over 30 years to develop the suspension
into something that can take advantage of the rear engined layout, it
has certain advatages, and a experienced Porsche driver knows how to use
this to his advantage, but less experienced drivers have discovered that
although the 911 can be driven faster than most cars on a twisty road,
once you get beyond a certain point, or the driver does something
mid-turn that he shouldn't (like lifting the throttle or braking), it
will show you where you just came from in a split second
The PSM might mask/reduce this tendency to the point where the average
driver might not get into trouble, but it can never eliminate the laws
of physics my friend, and even if you were right, this would only apply
to the 99 models, one model year in 35, would you then say that a 911
has lift off oversteer or not ?
--
Beers and cheers
(uncle) Goy
"Team Mirage" http://www.teammirage.com/
"The Pits" http://www.theuspits.com/
It was a play on words. Obviously I'm not debating with someone up to the
task.
: and learn all of the terms right off it, but I do know how to drive, and as
: soon as I get my 911 I am going to get it tuned up and enter an ameteur
: championship.
Have fun. Make sure you keep the PSM switched on... As for the tuning, if
you are at all serious about this, you'll be looking for a GT3. No tuning
necessary, and in fact none allowed in a lot of the spec series.
: (what the *** are u talking about? I finished high school and
: I went to University and studied economics and I have a job. So why the
: *** are u telling me to finish high school and go buy books on physics?
Perhaps you missed something the first time around.
: about cars and it's physics but he's [Schumacher] the best ***ing
: driver in the world
I imagine he knows a thing or two about drop-throttle oversteer...
: much better than one of those stupid indianopolis 500 losers that race
: around an oval track for 500 laps.)
I commend you on your seamless transition into an entirely new troll.
Also on your creative use of the word "***" throughout our
correspondence. If the economics job ever dries up, I'm sure that "u"
will be able to hook up the artist-formerly-known-as-Prince as a lyricist.
As a discussion of suspension theory, this thread has run its course for
me. As a flame war, it as over before it started.
Have a nice day Schu.
Stephen
p.s. don't forget the PSM... I have a feeling it will save your bacon.
> <ranting snipped>
> > I'm glad you are thinking of buying a 911. I imagine Matchbox has a
fine
> > assortment of colours for you to choose from, Schumi.
> > Stephen
> LOL!
> Charlie (not to be confused with the other) Schumacher
>Schumacher
1) Think before posting. Most folks try to do this with a good amount of
success
2) If you are American, Canadian, British, Australian or any other English
speaking country, then shut the hell up and go back to school and actually
learn the following:
a) grammar
b) vocabulary
c) how to play nicely with everyone else in the sandbox.
3) If you aren't from an English speaking country, then I know many of
people with better English from places that dont speak English at all.
4) Pay attention and read the posts before spouting off. Several of the
people who posted have said they have either
a) track time in a race-preped 911 aka Jan Verschueren whom I'd trust a
hell of a lot more than a snot nosed kid
b) various different vintages of 911 or other Porsches
c) They actually know the difference between a mid-engine and true
rear-engine car (as pointed out all those cars you mentioned, including F1
and CART cars are mid-engined machines. Heck even a top fuel dragster is a
mid-engine machine. What does that mean? It means the engine sits in front
of the rear axle. Porsche 911 is a rear-engine car because the engine
actually sits on/right behind the rear axle. Pretty plain definitions
aren't they?)
Anyways, sorry folks about the rank. :?
These cars are not rear-engine.
Bullshit.
F1 cars are not 'rear engined'.
You're an idiot.
--
* rrevved at mindspring dot com
LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
--
* rrevved at mindspring dot com
LOL!!!!
Psstt.. come closer. If you drive a normal 911 at speed and enter a corner
too fast, and you lift your foot from the throttle, the nearest telephone pole
will be the target of the REAR of your car.
Son, I have driven more Porsches than you have years on this planet.
I have driven them in race trim. I have raced them. I have owned
3 of them, beginning with an original 1953 356. My son-in-law has
a twin-turbo, ~600hp, 930 that I get to play with from time-to-time.
Be careful.
--
* rrevved at mindspring dot com
Apparently....
--
* rrevved at mindspring dot com
All it is is a fancy traction control. And no, it doesn't ELIMINATE
oversteer, it just does what a guy who knows how to drive a 911 fast would
do when it oversteers. Anyone here played the original Need For Speed?
That 911 would stick like glue until you lifted in the turns, just like a
real one...
I've been around 911s daily for over half of my life (my dad owned a '73 911
from '85 to '94, I was born in '83) and sporadically since then (a friend of
his has a '72 911, now has a mid-80s turbo...it's fast :) and I've seen them
race at an autocross event enough to know that 911s ARE LOOSE. The new ones
may not be as much so, but it's a fact of life. (One that I want to
experience after I get my license :)
--
Kirk Lane
ICQ: 28171652
BRT #187
"I read dead Russian authors volumes at a time
I write everything down except what's on my mind
'Cause my greatest fear is the sucking sound
And then I know I'll never get back out"
-'Narcolepsy', Third Eye Blind
Schumacher
> > And what the *** is this business about rear
> >engined cars? haven't you guys herd of F50s, McLaren F1s, CLK-GTRs?
> These cars are not rear-engine.
> > Ofcourse
> >a 911 will oversteer if u force it to, but in a turn it will understeer
99%
> >percent of the time.
> Bullshit.
> >Anyways from when on do cars oversteer at 200km/h when
> >attacking corners? I hardly ever see F1 cars oversteering, they spin out
> >quite often but when u have 800+ bhp it's not hard to spin out in 1,2 or
> >even 3 gear.
> F1 cars are not 'rear engined'.
> You're an idiot.
> --
> * rrevved at mindspring dot com
Anyone will interpret this as you describing those cars as rear-engined.
KSB
> > On Thu, 12 Aug 1999 14:40:10 +0200,
> > > And what the *** is this business about rear
> > >engined cars? haven't you guys herd of F50s, McLaren F1s, CLK-GTRs?
> > These cars are not rear-engine.
> > > Ofcourse
> > >a 911 will oversteer if u force it to, but in a turn it will understeer
> 99%
> > >percent of the time.
> > Bullshit.
> > >Anyways from when on do cars oversteer at 200km/h when
> > >attacking corners? I hardly ever see F1 cars oversteering, they spin
out
> > >quite often but when u have 800+ bhp it's not hard to spin out in 1,2
or
> > >even 3 gear.
> > F1 cars are not 'rear engined'.
> > You're an idiot.
> > --
> > * rrevved at mindspring dot com
Even in road-going form a 911 will bite you if not treated with
respect, and lift-off oversteer has been an infamous Porsche trait
ever since the 911's birth. With recent models and particularly with
the introduction of computer assisted traction, braking and steering
this is much improved on the road going models.
Cheers!
John