rec.autos.simulators

Marc.

I would like to give my impressions on MGPRS2, without entering in the
eternal topics (RS2 vs GPL)... (It's difficult).
It's a long message, in a poor english, so thanks to read me :)

  Objectively, this game (RS2) is so far, the best f1 modern racing sim
around, but we've to reconize that RS2 have no serious rivals... Prost GP,
J. Herbert etc, aren't serious enough to be compare with Ubi's F1 sims,
that's why this is the best.
I know that most of you are thinking about GPL, but 30 years separate these
games; and the common point shared , is "formula 1", and that's that ! Car's
physics are too diffrent between both games. Of course we can compare the
degree of realism, or finishing touches, and IMO GPL is the winner. But it's
not what I want talking about, since it generate stupid proceedings, because
this is two different games.

So, I just want to bring you my opignon about RS2, and talk about Ubi's
success stories :

 Like most of the drivers here, I've been playing GP2, and F1RS (a lot), and
I realy enjoyed racing with F1RS v1.09 , the first release was full of bugs
(ie: crash when u win a race !!!).
I was wondering if Ubi have tested F1RS before it went gold ! It took only
few days to see that the game was unplayable. Did you remember ? There were
also a well known CC times bug in qualify session... Mmmh, hope i've seem a
similar problems in another game ...
Also at the begining F1RS was suposed to be D3D and Glide compatible (two
.exe), and A3D suround sound enhanced. What a disillusion ! As Glide was ok,
D3D was awful, almost with M3D cards; and 3D Sonds caused many bugs. There
were no support from Ubi, and it took very long time to have a decent and
injoyable game, and also many patchs !
So, since v1.09 went out, the game was quite good, and the Unofficial Rick's
site was a very good place to go for learn (thx Magic Guy) and customize
F1RS. I've also compet in High Gear, and stop competition since F1Rays bring
the troubles everywhere. So as everyone here, I've been waiting for the
second event : MGPRS2.

 As I'm very fan of F1 sims, I've been expected a lot from RS2... Also, I
decided, to baught a good sound card (Maxi Home Studio 2 64) A3D, and was
realy impressed by N'Vidia TNT chipset, and I read in the Rick's RS2 review
that it was little better with this card, according also to the Ubi's staff.
I hope that my Maxi sound card should be ok for RS2, because, this is a
Guillemot card, and you know, Ubisoft was founded by Guillemot Brothers.
So... I guess it should be OK !
And RS2 went out, first time in UK, and one week later in France (where I
leave), everyone claimed that it was a wonderfull game, and really improved
! Coooool ...

 So when I've installed RS2 the 1st time, I made a "walk around" time
attack, the first lap was OK, BUT in the 2nd, suddenly, my cars crashed into
an invisible wall !!! Also, sonds fx were very messy.
It was very funny to see it in telemetry, but when I realised that I wasn't
abble to more than 3 laps without crashing into an invisible wall, I wasn't
so happy :(((
I know it is possible to modify SND_CPA.INI, but the game is still jerky,
and sounds horrible.

 Same shit, with my brand new Viper 550 TNT. With the first driver, every
thing was OK, but paused sometimes.
With new drivers the games is awful (bloc textures) if you don't disable
Mipmapping, and it slow down the game. Maybe this is not the Ubi's fault,
but I was really pissed off.

 SO ! For the hardware part, this is exactly the same bullshit than f1rs
v1.00 was !!! It looks like that UBI have writed RS2 with the source code of
F1RS v1.00, and didn't remember that they have done patch !
It's unbelivable !

Now, let's talk about the game properlly, and his famous improvements :

 1) Retro Mode :
Hahahaha... I don't know why Ubi have made this stupid "extra"... they bring
themself into discredit... You know why. GPL rules !

 2) Career / Scenario Modes :
Full of bugs ! Some msg in this forum explain it. Hey Ubi, did you even
tried it ? What a shame !
In any case, this is not that kind of stuff we could expected to improve a
simulation ... usualy this is good for poor arcade game, to bring a kind of
interest (IMO).

 3) Editors :
Same thing, this is a disgrace ! For F1RS, some guys as Ren Shmit, A.
Baz..., made powerfull editors, witch ones you can edit skylines,***pits
LCD etc... Ubi's ones didn't ! Also, the sound editor is in French ! This is
not a problem for me, but for those who don't speak french, it's not really
funny ! Anyway, F1bnm is still kickass, and FREE !

 4) Based on the 97 season :
In hell WHY ??? Since Ubi don't have paid for a new FIA lisence, why the
game is locked on 97' ?

 5) New tracks :
Mmmmmh, Just keep F1RS 1.09, and install the demo of RS2... and you'll have
RS2 without bugs :)))

 6) New car shape :
Yes, it's true !

 7) Car's physics improved :
Ok, this is good, and it feel more realistic, and that mean that F1RS cars,
wasn't perfect... so just a "physic patch" should have been better, and
cheaper ?!

 8) Game service :
Where ?

 9) 107% time rules :
Because of CC qualify times bug, you'll realy enjoy this new rules ! Damned
!

 10) Time attack :
Now we're abble to see if the ghost have been tuned with or without helps,
and witch controls, so good news for hotlapers, but this should have been
done in F1RS. Why can't we go inside the car ?
And you know of course that if you press "restart" that you'll lose all
preview ghost, and also all settings you have made in real time (F12 key).
:(((

 11) new feature in Setups :
Wheel alignment, is very usefull, for sure, and that's a good point, but
tires temperatures are still incomprehensible, and there's still no pressure
setting (it's very important ! Much more than this stupid retro mode !!!)

 12) The official site (monacoracingsim.com)
No comment. It's a bad joke.

There's also many bugs in the games, for exemple, replays still sucks, as
F1RS was at the begining, there's no sounds .
I know also there's many bugs with pits stop during the race, but for
instant, I can't hope to do more than 3 laps without troubles :( It's simply
unplayable in my PC.

------

So, my personnal impressions, is that RS2 is just a "buggy patch" from F1RS
v1.00, and Ubi have lose most of the F1 sims freaks (purist), as Eric and
Guy C?t and many other people used to be. They also lose their "best F1
simulation" status, because they manage F1 sim like Pod or other arcade
games.

Did you noticied, in the F1RS "resson" folder, that the retro sounds were
already in ? that mean that F1RS, is still not finished, and Ubi realy don't
care about that, because their first goals is to make money, much more than
satisfy their customers. This is absolutly not the right way for a game so
called "Simulation".
And this is easely verifiable, as all the guys who have customized F1RS in
the past have gone away for a well known other real simulation.

Now I don't expect a lot from the futur patch... It will be the same story
as F1RS was.
Like someone told in the Unofficial forum, maybe "Silverstone grand prix RS
3" will be finished, and we will pay 3 times for the same game, like
Microsoft do with Win95.

I know that I'm *** Ubi, but they do the same with us.

Plz, feel free to respond to this (long) message, and give your REAL
opignon, maybe it would be usefull for Ubi !
And keep friendly :)))

PS : Excuse me for my poor english, but I hope I was understandable  :)
PS2 : Get real ! (one more time)

Regards

Ophir

l8er
ronny

--
Toys'R'Us '99: "So, would you like a hand gun with that action figure,
kiddo?"

          |\      _,,,---,,_        I want to die like my Grandfather,
   ZZZzz /,`.-'`'    -.  ;-;;,_              in his sleep.
        |,4-  ) )-,_. ,\ (  `'-'     Not like the people in his car,
       '---''(_/--'  `-'\_)            screaming their heads off!

----------------------------------------------------------
Some of the points you make are valid.Ubisoft should not have released this
game with some of the bugs that they have BUT many games,sim or not are
released with many bugs.You have to remember that there is something like
12,000 combinations of CPU,cound/video cards etc and someone will always
have problems.Most of the problems are down to new video cards and their
drivers,many of which were not around when MGPRS2 was in production and many
of which have trouble with other d3d games.The only problems I have had are
the ghostlap problems and the qualifying bug,otherwise it's been plain
sailing.If I may I'll respond to some of your points.
1.Retro Mode:This was only intended for a laugh not as a serious diversion
from the main sim and as such should be treated as anything other than a way
of passing time.
2.Career Mode:I haven't tried it so I can't say much but it seems it does
have problems.
3.Editors:Couldn't agree more with you,but at least you have the option to
edit,not may sims,license or not allow this.
4.Based on the '97 season:I think there's a very good reason for this.This
game has taken a year to develope and they have had to make decisions on the
data they have ie performance etc.There was some confusion in F1 this year
as to whether there would be a European GP (Between Luxembourg and Japan)and
they had to make certain the calendar fitted the year.Also tuning the AI
performance to reflect the year I would Imagine would not be easy.
5.New tracks:If you're happy just palying the demo with no tune up options
etc then fine.
6.New cars.Look great.
7.107% rule:Can be a pain for now,but it's not a problem that can't be
fixed.I agree it should have been sorted before release but it doesn't spoil
it too much FOR ME.
8.Car physics:With the release of GPL a lot has been made of car physics,but
the fact remains that none of us have driven ANY of these cars are are in no
position to validate behaviour etc.I recall a post after the release of F1rs
when Verstappen was asked to test it for a Magazine (Maybe Rick remembers,I
think he posted a ghostlap Verstappen did)and,if memory serves,he commented
the model was reasonably accurate.
9.Tyre pressure in setups:Yes this is a big omission,but the setups option
still gives more options than many other sims and some people find them
daunting anyhow.
Overall I believe MGPRS2 to be an improvement over F1RS.Sure there are some
minor bugs but many games are released these days with bugs and other forums
and newsgroups show that GPL has it's own fair share of problems.Look at
Klingon Honor Guard,Sin,Shogo,Carmageddon 2,Colin McRae Rally all released
recently and all requiring patches etc.Pulishers put pressure on developers
to get games out ASAP and especially now many have an internet connection
bugs are seen as allowable and many can get fixes quickly,it's not right but
it's the way it is.The important thing NOW is that Ubisoft get it right with
the patch.My local EB in the U.K has a 10 day returns policy so you can take
a game back even if you don't like it and the best test for me is that if
I've spent 35 of my hard earned cash on something am I happy with it,and
the answer is I'm happy with MGPRS2.I've spent so many happy hours with it
up to now alone I already feel like I've had my money's worth.
Cheers for putiing up with this,
Garry
-------------------------------------------

Otherwise, Viper Racing seems to be getting positive reviews.

Tel
                              http://members.xoom.com/Tel33
                              ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
a.k.a. Holger Bachert                    F1RS Cars & Design

<clip>

Good stuff, hope nobody minds that I passed this along.

And of course be aware those people who are in the US, that the proper US
version will have Game Service support on the cd which includes tcp/ip last
thing I heard (or will) and hopefully several bug fixes (if the people here
have anything to say about it).

Do you feel you're constructive when you say "Don't believe everything you
read here... There's currently no other F1 sim that would even come close to
MGP" ?
Did you even read all of my message ?

I wrote exactly : "Objectively, this game (RS2) is so far, the best f1
modern racing sim
around, but we've to reconize that RS2 have no serious rivals... Prost GP,
J. Herbert etc, aren't serious enough to be compare with Ubi's F1 sims,
that's why this is the best."

Also, I've been insistant in the fact that it was just an (my) opignon, and
*of course* as this is a personal opignon, you can be agrea or not (and in
any case this is a review).

For sure, if you not come from F1RS, you'll be very satisfy with MGPRS2,
but, a lot of people like me are disapointed by the improvement brings to
RS2 vs F1RS, and that was the topics of my message, and make a decent
discussion about it, without starting a fighting, as you seems to do.

So when you say "Don't believe everything you read here..." , you just
impose your own opignon, right or wrong, and I hope this is not a right way.
Have a look to the David G Fisher's answers, and may be the sentence "Keep
it friendly" will have a sence to you.

And even if I was wrong (sometime), I gave my arguments, instead of u, when
you write "actually it is more than what Papyrus had to offer with their
Indycar/Nascar upgrades." Did you just played it ?

This answer is also acording to your last post in Rick's forum...

So please, read messages before responding, or read them more carfully, and
don't try to kill the debate, as you are doing .

Keep it friendly (again and again one more time)
And get REAL !

Regards.

Ophir.

PS: Usualy, I don't respond to the stupid message, but I guess you're not !
As you're doing a great painting job :)))
PS2 : I also doing some paintjobs (not as good as yours); I've made some
"winter trackset" with snow :))) Hey ! this is just for fun ! (aviable only
in misc RS2 french sites for instant, because they're not totaly finished)

Yea, whatever...this is a free world.
Check your email.
--

Tel
                              http://members.xoom.com/Tel33
                              ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
a.k.a. Holger Bachert                    F1RS Cars & Design

The illogic of split releases has already been flogged to death here...but
surely your corporate masters can figure this one out???  Explain how
UbiSoft N. America is helping its customers by either forcing them to wait
months or put up with buggy software with confusing and possibly
split-channel patching processes (or at least bug collecting processes)?
UbiSoft UK or Europe can just lie about a game service (it says there is one
on my box), but UbiSoft N. America would never do that???

If you are, in fact, two completely separate companies that don't talk to
each other and don't abide by the same corporate ethics, then one of you
better change your name....pronto.

Marc.

Yes, they have.

Nobody ever said that what was being done helped the customers, that may be
the intention but it may not work out that way. I think we all know what the
general concensus is on this one so no need to rehash it any further.

Quite honestly I don't see anything on the box that says anything about the
Game Service. The only mention I can see is in the manual on page 3 where it
says:

    Coming Soon! A game service on internet where you can see how you shape
up in real time against drivers the world over.

I believe that you misinterpret what I was saying. We, as North American
tech support do not deal with the same range of products as European tech
support. We are intentionally kept seperate in terms of areas of support.
Our products are also geared differently in terms of marketing in Europe and
in North America, with different people in charge in the different areas,
that's all.

I hope that clarifies things a little in an unofficial capacity.

OK, forget the warez jibe--I want your opinion, official or otherwise, as to
how Ubi Soft is treating its loyal customers (loyal/stupid enough to pay
full price for a patch to F1RS) who have gone to the extra effort to seek
out and purchase the UK version of MGPRS2 in North America.

There is no technical support presence on r.a.s. from Ubi Soft Europe?

We are told, everything will be fixed by Feb. '99 when the U.S. version is
released--but how does that help people who already own MGPRS2?

There is an unofficial presence from Ubi Soft N. America on r.a.s., but
people are only concerned about a product that doesn't yet exist here,
so.....?  Are there still forthcoming patches or upgrades to F1RS?--I didn't
think so.

Please explain.

Marc.