rec.autos.simulators

by **Wosc** » Sat, 27 Feb 1999 04:00:00

so you dont care how a game drives, just that the car falls apart when you
are threw driving it (sounds like you are used to seeing your car come
apart). I think you need to look towards the arcade games now. You dont
want to drive GPL cause ALL it has is good physics? It doesnt provide an
experience? You cant say ANYTHING about gpl EVER, you cant critisize it you
cant do anything to it cause you have never raced it as you said before.

>>Oh I knew this would cause a major riot amongst the Papyrus groupies
>>here... lol.

>Well forget that other goof. He is totally mental and says so in
>his sig.

>>btw this goes to Greg, I forgot one thing in my previous post... the
>>damage model when set to *realistic* provides a few good laughs too.
>>Don't take it too serious if you end up with everything intact after
>>5 meters airborn stunt with a double salto...or if you're touching
>>those hedges and hayballs at 200+ kph don't worry, worst thing that
>>could happen will be a not properly work wheel here and there
>>(although I still have to find out whether it's suspension or just the
>>tyre that gave up the ghost).
>>Of course it's a bit different with a frontal impact on a wall... you
>>can actually loose a wheel or two here! ;>

>Huh. I have had all sorts of things broken and ripped away from
>my car in F1RS. I actually cannot believe that F1RS would model
>damage better than GPL, but apparently from what you describe,
>it does. Quite surprising.

>I think I'll stick to that game and be glad I really don't like old
>era F1 racing. Believe it or not, I am looking for more than a
>driving model. Like an experience or something. If there is a GP3
>and it doesn't at least have what F1RS has as a starting point
>(weather, FF, kick ass 3D graphics, 3D sound and digital voice
>comms for starters) then forget it. It will be right there with Johnny
>Herbert Racing as far as I am concerned :-)

>--

>Header address intentionally scrambled to ward off the spamming hordes.

>cisko [AT] ix [DOT] netcom [DOT] com

by **Antoine Renaul** » Sat, 27 Feb 1999 04:00:00

On Thu, 25 Feb 1999 17:42:29 -0600, "Greg Cisko"

>Hey Sierra! WHO ARE YOU CRAPPIN???

It's obvious that you are basing your opinions on some kind of hatred
directed towards this product, not on actual driving experience. How
much credibility do you think you have when you come here and say "I
haven't tried the damn thing, I hate it, it sucks"... Well ok these
aren't exactly your words but that's what I gathered from your
comments.

Anyway you've found a wonderful way to make lots of friends here.
Being that stubburn and obnoxious really makes everyone wanting to
discuss with you.

I really don't understand, I remember seeing a lot of your posts here,
and never read one that feels so immature. Ok, you can comment on
things you've actually tried, but as far as commenting sims you
haven't tried yet and are not even willing to try, I don't think I
want to read these kind of posts.

Of course, GPL lacks in some domains. Rain is a good example. But it
has many other qualities that makes it worth buying anyway. I race a
lot with GPL, mostly on VROC, and I can honestly say I never found
myself thinking "hell, why isn't it raining?"...

You need to grow up.

Oh and one last thing:

*Plonk* (for a few weeks anyway)

A. Renault

by **Wosc** » Sat, 27 Feb 1999 04:00:00

You say you want a game that has more than just an accurate driving model.
See people thing thats all GPL it, you get a piece of asphalt and drive the
accurate model. The graphics are great, the setup options are all there AND
you actually get to see tire temps for camber, there are also other cars to
race against which some people seem to forget. No one thinks that the
racing in GPL is good but you can have some awesome battles and know you
cant just bash into others like in some games. Play the game before you say
stuff about how the only thing going for it is its driving model.
Wosco

>>GPL does have this type of bump, and models them very
>>well. This guy is referring to small high frequency
>>bumps in the pavement, not to natural undulations in
>>the road created by the surrounding terrain.

>He understood me pretty well. This type of small but annoying bumps is
>exactly what I meant, not some 'natural undulation' and it definately
>isn't present in GPL.

>>I don't know exactly what he is talking about
>>either. Maybe that if you go off the road,
>>traction isn't temporarily reduced when you
>>get back on the pavement?

>Exactly. Going off the road does not have any effect whatsoever.

>>I'm not a fan of any particular type of racing,
>>I just want as realistic an experience as
>>possible. IMO, GPL gives far more of a
>>"driving experience" than anything else!

>See, that's the problem - most people tend to support one racing
>series or another. If all I want is "driving experience" I could do
>that just as good if not better in real life on any open race track.
>And btw considering the current wheather conditions I could make such
>experiences on any ordinary road ;)... Unfortunately I want a
>simulation and here I think it takes a bit more than an accurate (?)
>working car model.

>>If you haven't, you really should at least
>>give the demo a try Greg.

>I second that.

>--Tel

by **Wosc** » Sat, 27 Feb 1999 04:00:00

yeah they race in teh rain alright but they have to have some little car out
there escorting them or they just run into the back of the competators
coming through the fog (happened 3 times i hear).
Jesse

>>No, idiots race in the rain. Real men wait for the jet dryers to do their
>>job, and then run some warm-up laps...

>Well the good ole boys in Nascar certainly do this. But in F1
>you race in the rain if it is raining. Period.

>--

>Header address intentionally scrambled to ward off the spamming hordes.

>cisko [AT] ix [DOT] netcom [DOT] com

by **Wosc** » Sat, 27 Feb 1999 04:00:00

to do the puddles, have a random electric motor put on your pot that
overrides the steering input and brake input so that it will cut in and if
you are braking, it will randomly override the brakes and make them less or
full so they lock up and you cant brake and with steering, when you are in
the turn and you hit a puddle, it makes you steer less, of course, randomly.
Also you can link it to the pressurized water supply andwhen it decides to
hit a puddle, the machine sprays out more water.
Jesse

>[Humor ON] I think I have the answer!

>I will explain. Someone that is a savvy track editor, could lower the tire
>traction on a given track (thus giving you rain like driving conditions),
>The you as the drivers would have to come up with a setup like the
>following.

>1) Helmet (with goggles, you know, Like the type they used in 67)
>2) 1- variable speed fan
>3) 1 - variable pressure water supply
>4) Fog Machine (Optional)

>Here's how it works. Set the fan in front of the your monitor (in such a
>place as to not block your view, but will still blow in your face.) Some
>how connect the variable speed fan up to the pot. on your brakes and gas
>pedals So, as you speed up the fan speeds up, as you brake the fan slows
>down. I think you get the point. Take you pressurized water supply and
>direct it into the back of the fan. This should spray water on your face
at
>variable speeds, thus giving you the sensation of rain as you drive. You
>should have a method of adjusting how much water in sprayed into the fan
>(wouldn't want to much, wouldn't want in to be "raining" cats-and-dogs).
>Got your Helmet on? How about the goggles? Now that your goggles are
fogged
>up, go run a few laps at the Ring. At the same time, make sure you keep
>your goggles clear so you can see where you are going. For added realism,
>add a little fog to the setup.

>Still working on the standing water puddles on the track, if I come up with
>an answer, I will let you guys know.

>Hey, Life begins at 180mph! (and ends when it starts to rain!)

>[Humor OFF]

>Do not hold me responsible for shorted keyboards and wheels/pedals combos,
>or any other electrical equipment they you might have damaged.

by **Thad Failo** » Sat, 27 Feb 1999 04:00:00

Hey! This it! We could market it as the AWDC (All Weather Driving
Console)! Get together with the company that sells the $20,000 miniture
race cars for just racing sims.

>to do the puddles, have a random electric motor put on your pot that
>overrides the steering input and brake input so that it will cut in and if
>you are braking, it will randomly override the brakes and make them less or
>full so they lock up and you cant brake and with steering, when you are in
>the turn and you hit a puddle, it makes you steer less, of course,
randomly.
>Also you can link it to the pressurized water supply andwhen it decides to
>hit a puddle, the machine sprays out more water.
>Jesse

>>[Humor ON] I think I have the answer!

>>I will explain. Someone that is a savvy track editor, could lower the
tire
>>traction on a given track (thus giving you rain like driving conditions),
>>The you as the drivers would have to come up with a setup like the
>>following.

>>1) Helmet (with goggles, you know, Like the type they used in 67)
>>2) 1- variable speed fan
>>3) 1 - variable pressure water supply
>>4) Fog Machine (Optional)

>>Here's how it works. Set the fan in front of the your monitor (in such a
>>place as to not block your view, but will still blow in your face.) Some
>>how connect the variable speed fan up to the pot. on your brakes and gas
>>pedals So, as you speed up the fan speeds up, as you brake the fan slows
>>down. I think you get the point. Take you pressurized water supply and
>>direct it into the back of the fan. This should spray water on your face
>at
>>variable speeds, thus giving you the sensation of rain as you drive. You
>>should have a method of adjusting how much water in sprayed into the fan
>>(wouldn't want to much, wouldn't want in to be "raining" cats-and-dogs).
>>Got your Helmet on? How about the goggles? Now that your goggles are
>fogged
>>up, go run a few laps at the Ring. At the same time, make sure you keep
>>your goggles clear so you can see where you are going. For added realism,
>>add a little fog to the setup.

>>Still working on the standing water puddles on the track, if I come up
with

>>an answer, I will let you guys know.

>>Hey, Life begins at 180mph! (and ends when it starts to rain!)

>>[Humor OFF]

>>Do not hold me responsible for shorted keyboards and wheels/pedals combos,
>>or any other electrical equipment they you might have damaged.

by **Greg Cisk** » Sat, 27 Feb 1999 04:00:00

>Greg Cisko wrote
>>Well forget that other goof. He is totally mental and says so in
>>his sig.

>Your becoming a troll Greg ?

Well your sig does say you are retarded. I figure that is pretty close
to mental :-)

--

Header address intentionally scrambled to ward off the spamming hordes.

cisko [AT] ix [DOT] netcom [DOT] com

by **Greg Cisk** » Sat, 27 Feb 1999 04:00:00

>so you dont care how a game drives, just that the car falls apart when you
>are threw driving it (sounds like you are used to seeing your car come
>apart). I think you need to look towards the arcade games now. You dont

Actually you would have to wreck to have your car fall apart. I generally
stay in one piece. However when you wreck, you should wreck and your
car should disintegrate as appropriate. The FF in F1RS even properly
models flat tires. That is not to bad as far as I can tell.

I never said that. You did. I said I didn't like that era of racing, you
somehow equated that to me saying that I don't like GPL because
all it has is good physics. I guess I thought it had more than good
physics. I was surprised and said so. Next thing I know I get all
you ***weasels up my rear. Well great.

Have I actually said that GPL was shit? No. I said that I would find it
surprising that F1RS would model damage better than GPL. I also
said weather should be included. Of course judging from all the crying
about weather it seems too tough for most of you :-)

--

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by **Greg Cisk** » Sat, 27 Feb 1999 04:00:00

>See since you havnt raced gpl, you dont understand that gpl is like racing
>on rain, if you added rain to the game, it would just make it imposible to
>drive.

I assume the same thing happened in real life right?

--

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by **Greg Cisk** » Sat, 27 Feb 1999 04:00:00

>On Thu, 25 Feb 1999 17:42:29 -0600, "Greg Cisko"

>>Hey Sierra! WHO ARE YOU CRAPPIN???

>It's obvious that you are basing your opinions on some kind of hatred
>directed towards this product, not on actual driving experience. How

Hate? No I don't think so. Surprise? Yes.

I imagine you would interprut it that way. As I said before I was simply
surprised. Also I asked a few questions and started a discussion.
A discussion which many apparently don't want to hear. Sheesh
I'm really sorry I brought up some questions about the bad points of
GPL. F1RS has many bad points (track elevations being the biggest).
I was somehow able to manage through that without having a girlie
hissie fit.

Swell.

Hey that is what killfiles or simply passing on my posts will get you.
Be sure to cover your ears and tell me you can't hear me :-)

Ok that is great.

Right...

Hey, *Plonk* "THIS". I'll be remembering this one (longer than
a few weeks). Thanks much.

--

Header address intentionally scrambled to ward off the spamming hordes.

cisko [AT] ix [DOT] netcom [DOT] com

by **Greg Cisk** » Sat, 27 Feb 1999 04:00:00

>On Fri, 26 Feb 1999 07:18:29 -0600, "Greg Cisko"

>>Well the good ole boys in Nascar certainly do this. But in F1
>>you race in the rain if it is raining. Period.

>Unless of course you are Lauda or Prost!

Well you are certainly correct there. However after the wreck Prost had
in the rain (got rear ended tires touched and the other car got launched
I believe) I really never could blame him for being scared. I'm sure I
am only brave because I am driving behind a monitor :-)

Yep. I think T. Boutsen(sp?) was only able to win in a crash filled
raining GP of canada in the 80's. I know that was his first win, did
he ever win again? I doubt it.

--

Header address intentionally scrambled to ward off the spamming hordes.

cisko [AT] ix [DOT] netcom [DOT] com

by **Wosc** » Sat, 27 Feb 1999 04:00:00

First off it seems like gpl is too tough for you. You havnt even tried the
game.

quote...

everyone is all gaga over the supposed
good driving model and forgot about the weather

that says right there, the driving model is great, doesnt have weather so it
sucks basically.

quote...

Believe it or not, I am looking for more than a
driving model. Like an experience or something.

looks like you are saying it is only a driving model, you want an
experience, gpl isnt an experience though? hehe, i can see you looking at
your completly torn apart F1 car in the mist (or as f1rs calls it, rain)
thinking, now thats an experience.

oh well im done arguing for now. You seem to think that the key to an
awesome game is that it must be capable of making polygons go spreading
across the track (F1rs have fire?) and has to have a rain like look (mist in
f1rs's case). Who cares about the driving model cause it is too hard. F1rs
was a good game for when it was released. Has the same old physics as all
the other games. GPL is a change in the normal routine. An actual
challenge. If you want to critisize the game for being too hard for you or
because you dont want to buy it, great for you but next time, play the game
and critisize it for something that you can back up.

Jesse

>>so you dont care how a game drives, just that the car falls apart when you
>>are threw driving it (sounds like you are used to seeing your car come
>>apart). I think you need to look towards the arcade games now. You dont

>Actually you would have to wreck to have your car fall apart. I generally
>stay in one piece. However when you wreck, you should wreck and your
>car should disintegrate as appropriate. The FF in F1RS even properly
>models flat tires. That is not to bad as far as I can tell.

>>want to drive GPL cause ALL it has is good physics? It doesnt provide an

>I never said that. You did. I said I didn't like that era of racing, you
>somehow equated that to me saying that I don't like GPL because
>all it has is good physics. I guess I thought it had more than good
>physics. I was surprised and said so. Next thing I know I get all
>you ***weasels up my rear. Well great.

>>experience? You cant say ANYTHING about gpl EVER, you cant critisize it
>you
>>cant do anything to it cause you have never raced it as you said before.

>Have I actually said that GPL was shit? No. I said that I would find it
>surprising that F1RS would model damage better than GPL. I also
>said weather should be included. Of course judging from all the crying
>about weather it seems too tough for most of you :-)

>--

>Header address intentionally scrambled to ward off the spamming hordes.

>cisko [AT] ix [DOT] netcom [DOT] com

by **Greg Cisk** » Sat, 27 Feb 1999 04:00:00

>yeah they race in teh rain alright but they have to have some little car
out
>there escorting them or they just run into the back of the competators
>coming through the fog (happened 3 times i hear).

You hear? Hows about actually watching the races this year
then see how you feel about it.

--

Header address intentionally scrambled to ward off the spamming hordes.

cisko [AT] ix [DOT] netcom [DOT] com

>Jesse

>>>No, idiots race in the rain. Real men wait for the jet dryers to do their
>>>job, and then run some warm-up laps...

>>Well the good ole boys in Nascar certainly do this. But in F1
>>you race in the rain if it is raining. Period.

>>--

>>Header address intentionally scrambled to ward off the spamming hordes.

>>cisko [AT] ix [DOT] netcom [DOT] com

by **ymenar** » Sat, 27 Feb 1999 04:00:00

Ronald Stoehr wrote

lol ;-)

Well people want it correctly done with mathematical physics and dynamic
weather or canned like some "other" Formula 1 software ? If Papyrus see
that presently modeling a accurate dynamic weather is impossible with
today's hardware, what's the point of creating one botched and canned ?

-= Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard/Nas-Frank>
-= NROS Nascar sanctioned Guide http://www.nros.com/
-= SimRacing Online http://www.simracing.com/
-= Official mentally retarded guy of r.a.s.
-= May the Downforce be with you...

"People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realise
how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world."

by **Wosc** » Sat, 27 Feb 1999 04:00:00

well see back then, they had something called a race car. You sat in it, it
gave you feedback when you drove. In gpl, you have no direct feedback, you
cant feel the back end come around on you or catching the bumps and feel the
steering wheel respond as it pushes off in the turn or the brakes become
squishy when they lock up.....etc.....so if they added rain to the game,
there would be no way to feel what you need to feel as you drive to
successfully drive in the rain, it is hard enough to get a feel for the game
as it is, in the rain, it would be just much more imposible because in rain
it is even more critical to have feedback because of random puddles and dry
spots.

But look at me, im trying to explain to you about how the driving is in GPL
and you havnt played it so you cant judge anything like that. I dont know
why im argueing with someone like you. Its like me going up to you and
saying, your moms great in bed or something like that.

Bye for uhh maybe an hour, before I have to explain my point from a
different point of view again until you can realise you need to get the game
before you start judging it or the people that play it.

Jesse

>>See since you havnt raced gpl, you dont understand that gpl is like racing
>>on rain, if you added rain to the game, it would just make it imposible to
>>drive.

>I assume the same thing happened in real life right?

>--

>Header address intentionally scrambled to ward off the spamming hordes.

>cisko [AT] ix [DOT] netcom [DOT] com

rec.autos.simulators

What about RAIN!

What about RAIN!

What about RAIN!

What about RAIN!

What about RAIN!

What about RAIN!

What about RAIN!

What about RAIN!

What about RAIN!

What about RAIN!

What about RAIN!

What about RAIN!

What about RAIN!

What about RAIN!

What about RAIN!

What about RAIN!